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Emergency, please help.


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Test Results for the Following:
 Ammonia Level(Tank) 0ppm
 Nitrite Level(Tank) 0ppm
 Nitrate level(Tank) 0ppm
 Ammonia Level(Tap) 
 Nitrite Level(Tap)
 Nitrate level(Tap)
 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) PH 6.6 - 7 (it's hard to tell), KH 1
 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
Other Required Info:
 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Master freshwater test kit, Drops 
 Water temperature? 22°C
 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 100L, 3 years
 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Tidal 120
 How often do you change the water and how much? 50% per week
 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 30% 3 days ago
 How many fish in the tank and their size? Single fish, 14cm. 20cm including tailfin
 What kind of water additives or conditioners? Usually use API Tapsafe & Stress Zyme
 What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari Fancy Goldfish & Hikari Algae Wafers, threw away when he got sick. Peas only for 3 days, Repashy Supergold yesterday. + Plants. 
 Any new fish added to the tank? No
 Any medications added to the tank? Yes - eSHa 2000, 3ppt aquarium salt
 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
 Oct 21st: 5tbsp salt to 100L, 30% water change
 Oct 22nd: 3ppt salt (300g per 100L), fed peas only, 30% water change
 Oct 23rd: eSHa 2000 24 drops, salt 3ppt, fed peas only
 Oct 24th: eSHa 2000 12 drops, salt 3ppt, fed peas only
 Oct 25th: eSHa 2000 14 drops (2 extra accidentally), salt 3ppt, fed Repashy supergold

 

Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? 
Left side swollen bulge, scales stick out. "Puss" or something white coming out.
Right side scales slighty sticking out
Hemorrhages at the base of his scales, fins and mouth. 
Poops thin and translucent in some areas, but normal sometimes. 

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Staying at the bottom since yesterday, still excited when eating.

 

 

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:hi and :welcome

I would have to say that this fish is showing signs of a bacterial infection. The red anal fin and belly fins on the first photo was the first hint. Then the redness in the scales sticking out. Anytime you see red lines coming out from the body like that with a swelling and then that white pus coming out in a big indication of this problem.

 

I do believe you will need "Kanaplex" but I will get @Arctic Mama 's attention she is Awesome with these kinds of illnesses. Give her some time though. She has 7 kids. :) 

Hold on tight. :) 

Oh and by the way what country are you in. This will help out in what we can suggest for you. 

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Thank you for your reply! I am in the UK, I actually just ordered some Kanaplex from the US, it's going to take a while to get here though but i'm holding out hope it will be here in time. 

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He is a lot more active today and I think the swelling has gone down slightly. For now I will continue using eSHa 2000 (for 3 more days) and 3ppt aquarium salt. I don't know if what i'm doing is right. 

I did a 30% water change today, I want to do a larger one but I have to let the water sit overnight because eSHa says not to use water conditioner with it. How fast can I remove the chorine/ chloramine if I use an aerator? It might also dilute the medicine but will be ok if I replace the medicine I take out?

I noticed a slug like glob in the filter media when rinsing it. No idea what that was but I took a picture incase anyone knows. 

Parameters today before the water change were PH 6.6 - 7, Nitrite 0, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 0, not sure why Nitrates are 0 though. Could it be that he is not releasing ammonia properly? Could the plant or the filter be taking care of the Nitrates? Really not sure about that one, the test drops are in date.

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The fish looks better. I agree that this was initially a bacterial issue. I do not believe that this is dropsy even with the raised scales which also look better. I would do much larger water changes such as 80% or two 50% water changes, vacuum your gravel. I would use prime as your conditioner.  I would only feed repashy super gold , no hikari or waffers, no dry food at all.  If you have completed the medication cycle I would continue with the salt until the scales have gone done. Feed sparingly for a while and slowly increased back to normal feeding but once again I only recommend the gel food and peas. 

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On 10/26/2021 at 8:22 PM, spider man said:

The fish looks better. I agree that this was initially a bacterial issue. I do not believe that this is dropsy even with the raised scales which also look better. I would do much larger water changes such as 80% or two 50% water changes, vacuum your gravel. I would use prime as your conditioner.  I would only feed repashy super gold , no hikari or waffers, no dry food at all.  If you have completed the medication cycle I would continue with the salt until the scales have gone done. Feed sparingly for a while and slowly increased back to normal feeding but once again I only recommend the gel food and peas. 

Thank you for your advice, i'm not sure how to do bigger water changes without using dechlorinator? I will do a massive water change tomorrow, I gave him the last dose of esha 2000 today so it should be ok to remove it from the water tomorrow morning I think. Is it safe to change the water parameters so drastically though? I'm trying to feed him minimally but he keeps eating the plant that's in his tank, I would take it out but he needs something to hide behind. I'm not sure what to do about it. 

I don't think he's getting any better, there is still white stuff coming out of the lump on his side. Someone suggested I should treat him with internal parasite medication. I have esha gdex to hand but i'm not sure if I should use it or not. Would it hurt? I think perhaps it could be parasites because his bottom looks red and sore, and his poop is sometimes white and stringy. 

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koko
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Hey, so likely this is a bacterial abscess since the swelling is asymmetrical. I don’t believe this would be parasitic, just based on what you’ve described upthread. Unless you addd live food or a new plant there is no vector by which a parasite could enter a system with a single fish that’s been running multiple years :)

Being in the UK makes this tough because antibiotics are the best for what you’re seeing, I’m pleased you ordered Kanaplex. At some point you should also order metronidazole and nitrofurazone to have on hand in your medicine kit for future use, so when you need them you’re not waiting on shipping. 
 

You absolutely can continue to use a dechlorinator, and you can do large water changes too. But if your fish seems to pout or bottle sit after water changes, consider doing 50% changes three days in a row to gradually remove the existing meds, instead of all at once. It will dilute them down without major swings in the chemistry.

Finally, while your waiting for Kanaplex, you can absolutely use methylene blue and dose as the bottle instructs, it will inhibit the spread of bacteria further and is generally very healthy supportive for the animal. It’s a solid method for slowing infections or even reversing them via the antiseptic properties when you don’t have antibiotics on hand. And it’s very inexpensive, too!

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Thank you so much! I have done 4 x daily 50% water changes and today I started using waterlife myxazin which has acriflavin in it. He seems to be doing ok, he's very active, hopefully that's a good sign. The swelling has not gone down yet but it's not getting worse either.

There should only be about 25g of salt left in the tank now, i've been slowly removing it all. 

I will make sure to order those, thank you.

Is waterlife myxazin ok to use instead of methylene blue? It also has antiseptic properties and it isn't suppose to kill filter bacteria. 

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koko
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If anything is going to treat it of what you can get your hands on, it would be kanaplex.  When you say “getting worse” what specific symptoms of behavior? Any new pictures that would show us? 
 

What you have described sounds bacterial, but if there is an infection or a specific organ on the fish causing the asymmetrical bulging, the next step would be a vet and likely injected bactrim. 

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His scales are sticking out across a larger area of his body each day. He is behaving like there's nothing wrong with him and eating normally. I know it is unlikely but could it be parasites? 

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Definitely not good. Highly unlikely to be a parasite - more like a bacterial infection that his little immune system can't fight. What have you been treating him with?

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Like I said unthread it’s not a parasite if nothing new or living has been added to the tank in a year or three. That makes viral very unlikely too. But bacterial infections vary and can flare up with water quality swings or even just old age, as a fish weakens. The kanaplex was a good move, but if that isn’t improving his visible symptoms then it could be beyond what you can treat at home, hence why I mentioned bringing a vet on. There are other medication options too, but they take time to ship and if the kanaplex hasn’t been helpful at all I don’t hold out hope that oxy or triple sulfa is going to do what kana could not.

 

Looking at your new pictures it could still be an abscess, because the redness and swelling are still very localized. But if it is internal it is likely to cause septicemia as it stands. Finish out the treatment course, but the way things look now if the fish isn’t improved after day seven of kanaplex I’m going to say it’s probably beyond what we can treat with the home medications and on water treatments you have available. However if the fish is swimming at eating, it’s okay to let things persist until his quality of life degrades. At that point euthanizing is often a kinder option than just letting them go on their own time. But eating and swimming are VERY good signs.

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I agree. This is an internal issue and he's clearly not fighting it. He may be too old or it may be too late. There may be nothing you can do for him beyond this point. How are you treating him with the Kanaplex??

These fish are tough and sometimes take a long while to show pain and discomfort, but being this swollen can't possibly be comfortable for him.

I think that if he continues to show no improvement or if he begins to show signs of feeling ill - euthanasia would probably be the best option. 

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I have been looking at pictures I took a couple of weeks ago and I just can't tell if it's better or not so i'll put a picture in to see what you guys think. 

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He isn't swimming properly, he keeps floating to the side and trying to right himself and then floating again. Today when I fed him he tried to eat it, but spat most of it out. I have been researching humane euthanasia. I have come across the clove oil method. Some people say to freeze the fish after the clove oil, some people say use vodka. I don't know which is more humane. I couldn't bare it if he woke up because I didn't do something properly.

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I recommend clove oil as well, that’s all I use and it numbs them, no stinging or slow pain.

Give the floating issues you’re mentioning and here he is red, whatever organ or internal location the infection is originating has swelled to the point of pressing on the swim bladder, which isn’t that unusual in later stage dropsy. I’m sorry :(

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Clove oil is usually good. I have seen a small percentage of fish struggle at the very beginning but they usually slowly fall asleep calmly and it's over that quickly. Once he completely stops moving, leave him in the solution for another 30 minutes and he won't wake up. You don't need to freeze him.

A swift decapitate and pith or a PROPERLY done blow to the head also works and is humane - but those methods are harder on the aquarist.

At this point - it's pretty clear he won't recover and it's probably best to euthanize him. To let him die naturally is an option of course, but not one I would choose.

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Apparently if a fish is bigger than 4 inches clove oil won't kill them, and I think he is bigger than 4 inches. It will knock him out, but is he going to wake up again?😰 Once his gills stop moving is he definitely dead? 

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5 minutes ago, sarah91 said:

Apparently if a fish is bigger than 4 inches clove oil won't kill them, and I think he is bigger than 4 inches. It will knock him out, but is he going to wake up again?😰 Once his gills stop moving is he definitely dead? 

The way to do it is to dose more clove oil once their gills stop moving, and give it about thirty minutes. That ensures brain death. Once gills aren’t moving I have often moved them to the freezer to finish it off, just in case. But I’d never put a sensate goldfish in there, only one that was already obliviously anesthetized.  I’ve euthanized fairly large fish (six inches of body length and chub) and had no issues.

when they’re fully dead I’ve noticed their eyes dilate and go vacant. It’s a particular expression you don’t see on a fish that is merely knocked out, that nobody is home anymore.

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You’re welcome, I’m sorry the treatment didn’t work in this case. With infections it is very much a coin toss as to whether a fish responds or not.

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I couldn't do it. I changed 80% of the water because I suspected the antibiotic was making him worse, in the morning he had improved. He is active and eating again. But I know, if antibiotics don't work, he is still going to die. I just can't bring myself to do it yet. I know I will have to, but I don't think he is ready yet. Maybe I am in denial because it is such a hard thing to do. 

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