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Level of Salt?


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Wondering the recommended on-going level of salt for ponds. Some suggest 0.3% but I have heard 0.1% and 0.2%.

Also wondering about the level of salt for treatment of gill flukes with PraziPro? I’ve heard to take it to 0.3% But I’ve also heard 0.6% without PraziPro for a limited time. My water is only heated to 60.3 degrees so fluke eggs keep hatching. 3 PraziPro treatments in 3 weeks. About to do a 4th. Concerned this won’t be enough given the cold temp. Thinking increasing salt level after PraziPro treatment. Thoughts. Thanks.

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Are you using a single or double dose of PraziPro?

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Following the directions of 1 ounce per 120 gallons. Are you saying some double that to 1 ounce per 60 gallons? Thanks!

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Most ponders do not use PraziPro. It is costly to use in large systems and Prazi itself has been abused in the hobby and many of us find it is fairly ineffective at treating flukes in outdoor systems. Also - nobody recommends keeping salt in ponds longterm. This is unnecessary. Flukes are very salt resistant due to salt abuse in the hobby and it has little to no effect on them now. Also, Hikari, the makers of PraziPro recommend not to use salt with their product. If you want to use salt with prazi, you need to use the powdered form.

Have you done scrapes and checked in the microscope to be sure you are treating flukes? Ponders need microscopes. Period. Are they gill flukes or body flukes? It is uncommon that fish have both. Flukes issues are generally early spring issues if you have them. 

If you are CERTAIN you are dealing with flukes - Flubendazole is a better treatment for outdoor systems. 

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11 minutes ago, mjfromga said:

Most ponders do not use PraziPro. It is costly to use in large systems and Prazi itself has been abused in the hobby and many of us find it is fairly ineffective at treating flukes in outdoor systems. Also - nobody recommends keeping salt in ponds longterm. This is unnecessary. Flukes are very salt resistant due to salt abuse in the hobby and it has little to no effect on them now. Also, Hikari, the makers of PraziPro recommend not to use salt with their product. If you want to use salt with prazi, you need to use the powdered form.

Have you done scrapes and checked in the microscope to be sure you are treating flukes? Ponders need microscopes. Period. Are they gill flukes or body flukes? It is uncommon that fish have both. Flukes issues are generally early spring issues if you have them. 

If you are CERTAIN you are dealing with flukes - Flubendazole is a better treatment for outdoor systems. 

I’ve never used PraziPro specifically myself but it’s marketed as safe for saltwater systems, so there’s a lot of conflicting info where their marketing is concerned. 

As @mjfromgastated Flubendazole is likely a better option, but if you do go the route of PraziPro as a rule of thumb salt to 0.1% for a single dose and 0.3% for double. If the fish have been treated in the past and are asymptomatic I’d skip the salt or maybe use 0.1% purely to prevent any secondary infections.

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Yes, no to keeping salt in as an ongoing additive. For fluke treatment powdered praziquantel can be purchased off eBay and from many vendors, and that is more economical and very effective for treatment. If the pond is planted don’t use salt for parasite treatment in the main pond, it can be very hard on the plant life, there are other types of treatment that might be better. If this is just precautionary with new fish, consider removing the animals for salt dips instead of in pond salting, and yes, I’d say modify your prazi rounds slightly longer - seven days of prazi in, seven days out, for two weeks total.  Run two or three of those rounds (4-6 weeks total) and you should have an almost non existent fluke load remaining.

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3 hours ago, mjfromga said:

Most ponders do not use PraziPro. It is costly to use in large systems and Prazi itself has been abused in the hobby and many of us find it is fairly ineffective at treating flukes in outdoor systems. Also - nobody recommends keeping salt in ponds longterm. This is unnecessary. Flukes are very salt resistant due to salt abuse in the hobby and it has little to no effect on them now. Also, Hikari, the makers of PraziPro recommend not to use salt with their product. If you want to use salt with prazi, you need to use the powdered form.

Have you done scrapes and checked in the microscope to be sure you are treating flukes? Ponders need microscopes. Period. Are they gill flukes or body flukes? It is uncommon that fish have both. Flukes issues are generally early spring issues if you have them. 

If you are CERTAIN you are dealing with flukes - Flubendazole is a better treatment for outdoor systems. 

And yes to this, if you’re dealing with flukes, lice, etc, there are more specific treatments to manage them. Dimilin, flubendazole, even formalin. It just depends on what you’re actually trying to treat. But prophylactic treatments in ponds really should be kept to a minimum, I think.

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16 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

And yes to this, if you’re dealing with flukes, lice, etc, there are more specific treatments to manage them. Dimilin, flubendazole, even formalin. It just depends on what you’re actually trying to treat. But prophylactic treatments in ponds really should be kept to a minimum, I think.

Agree. Ponders say always scrape and scope, never dump and hope. Most of us do NOT do prophylactic treatments at all. They are expensive and wasteful for outdoor systems and I just don't see the point.

Some people treat the pond with PP once or twice a year - but that's about it. With fancy goldfish - I don't recommend doing without knowledge this as PP must be dosed carefully or it can kill the fish.

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And microscopes and slides/stains/cover sheets are not expensive. I think I got all and a decent microscope for $70? We use it for our high school bio and such. 

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Actually, koi ponders do use PraziPro. Mystic Koi is one of the best. Then there is Play it Koi, Hoshi Koi and many others. 

As for salt use, please see one of the best Koi breeders, Kodama Koi: https://www.kodamakoifarm.com/benefits-salt-koi-pond-why-should-use-it/?unapproved=499756&moderation-hash=533f3c3d635e8f12b00820fbe8d7f48b#comment-499756

Sorry, maybe koi ponders are different than goldfishers.

 

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Prazi pro is a good product, but it is expensive for what you get (especially for high gallon setups) and I have found it to be less effective, in my own systems and in advising treatment for others.

 

Also you may double check the article, it was not about using salt as a long term water additive or prophylactically, but as a treatment for illnesses and mitigation of parasites in higher volume medicinal quantities, or as a bath. Both things we mentioned and support here. 

What we are saying is that, in the absence of any symptoms, it is better not to use it. And if you do have symptoms of parasites and these fish are new buys and not out in the pond yet, use it in a dip/bath or a hospital tank, as plants do not like higher volumes of salt and the lower concentrations are not particularly effective anymore - overuse has caused salt resistant parasites.

Pretty much everything we have said is what that article echoed. But if you want to take advice from other sources please do so, just don’t try and mix treatments with our recommendations as it can be confusing, or even harmful, if parameters or treatment is happening outside of the course we recommend (salt interacts with some parasitic treatments, binds to certain chemicals, etc).

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Not suggesting heavy long term salt. Some suggesting minimal level.
 

The big issue here is whether to do a heavier salt treatment for gill flukes, such as 0.3% to perhaps 0.6% salt for a period of time or do a 4th treatment of PraziPro. Or do both. 

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From the article: 1. Use salt to take care of parasites and/or bacteria on a Koi’s body. Koi live in freshwater. So do parasites and bacteria. A koi pond salt treatment helps eliminate freshwater parasites and bacteria.

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2 hours ago, Tucker said:

Actually, koi ponders do use PraziPro. Mystic Koi is one of the best. Then there is Play it Koi, Hoshi Koi and many others. 

As for salt use, please see one of the best Koi breeders, Kodama Koi: https://www.kodamakoifarm.com/benefits-salt-koi-pond-why-should-use-it/?unapproved=499756&moderation-hash=533f3c3d635e8f12b00820fbe8d7f48b#comment-499756

Sorry, maybe koi ponders are different than goldfishers.

 

You are a Koi ponder? In that case - better information may be found on Koiphen. I highly doubt many will recommend PraziPro over there either though. And I would be very surprised if a large Koi farm used or advocated the use of PraziPro. It is such a novice medication and it really has lost much of its effectiveness.

And that article explains how to use salt on SICK or NEW fish. It does not advocate the use of salt all the time or as a prophylactic on current fish. Since you seem to have the scoop on what professionals recommend, I am unsure as to why you posted here.

Because you did not explain WHY you wanted to use the salt or meds, or the type of fish, we gave you general information we found useful. If you wish to do something different, by all means.

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I did explain it was for gill flukes but that was ignored.

Koi and gold fish are both carp and treatment should be similar.
 

Looking for advice.

From article: 

Table of Contents – Salt in Koi Pond

Is Salt Good for a Koi Pond?

Why Do We Use Salt?

How Do You Use Salt for Koi?

What Type of Salt for Koi Pond?

How Much Salt Do I Use in Koi Pond?

How Do I Check Salt Level in My Koi Pond?

Will Adding Salt Kill Pond Plants?

How Can I Measure Pond Volume Using Salt?

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Tucker said:

From the article: 1. Use salt to take care of parasites and/or bacteria on a Koi’s body. Koi live in freshwater. So do parasites and bacteria. A koi pond salt treatment helps eliminate freshwater parasites and bacteria.

And again - the article also states that salt has lost much of its effectiveness against most parasites but still has SOME effectiveness against things such as Columnaris bacteria. I agree with that.

No where in that article does it say or advise to use salt for the treatment of gill flukes. Salt has nearly NO EFFECT on gill flukes regardless of the concentration you use. Even the article states that salt does nearly nothing to most parasites. 

So you can use whatever concentration of salt you want - but it will not have any real effect on gill flukes. And this is assuming you are even sure your fish have them. And it is unclear whether salt works well with Prazipro or not because when asked, they say to not use salt with the product. But the label says it is saltwater safe as Taryl stated.

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With that said - nobody can advise you on the use of salt and Prazipro. It isn't even clear if the two are safe or recommended to use together. This is why Prazipro is considered a novice medication that not many of us use anymore. 

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I came here hoping for advice. Flubendazole was mentioned. Fluke M has Flubendazole. I have Fluke M on the way and I hope it is effective. 

Regarding Prazi and Flubendazole, Dr. Erik Johnson has a very interesting article: https://drjohnson.com/praziquantel-doesnt-work-anymore-against-flukes/

 

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On 10/20/2021 at 12:09 AM, Tucker said:

I came here hoping for advice. Flubendazole was mentioned. Fluke M has Flubendazole. I have Fluke M on the way and I hope it is effective. 

Regarding Prazi and Flubendazole, Dr. Erik Johnson has a very interesting article: https://drjohnson.com/praziquantel-doesnt-work-anymore-against-flukes/

 

You got advice - it just wasn't what you wanted.  And you have all these articles written by people you seem to respect, so I don't understand why you needed advice honestly. 

That article is a grammatical atrocity and it basically backs up much of what I said about Prazi. He claimed that if used very carefully and dissolved properly (prazi is known for not dissolving) in a clean system without too many organics (such as a fish tank) with a mid tier alkalinity, the product should work as intended. Outdoor systems often don't have all of that and the Flubendazole doesn't have to meet all those requirements to work as well.

He basically just defended Prazi from people who say it doesn't work at all (I did not say that). But despite all his defense of it - he did not recommend it over Flubendazole based products. 

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