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Breeder recommendation


Lenae98

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2 hours ago, Acro said:

Nope, not trying to subtly find out if you are over stocked.  If I wanted to ask that, I'd do it outright.  ;)

But I still want to see a full pond photo!  It's been months longer than I had planned, but I am still trying to get my indoor pond system(s) set up and I love seeing what others are working with to get ideas.

Ohhhh an indoor pond! I am so jealous! My little pond is three years old. First year for fish and plants. A hobby that developed last year with covid lockdowns and was mostly research last year that I put into practice this summer. I have a dwarf water lily, water clover, water celery, variegated yellow flag iris and dwarf cattails, a painted fern at the back. We built a deck that hangs over the pond about a foot which makes you feel a bit like your sitting on a lake dock. To the left of the picture you can just make out our waterfall. It now has lovely moss covering the entire front of the rocks. The moss was the waterfalls idea but we loved the look so much that we encouraged and helped it along. My big pond will be different. I am going with all native plantings with it. The fish will move to it and this little pond will become my tadpole pond. I really want to raise native amphibian species. All native species in both ponds except my goldies which I just can't give up. My guilty pleasures. 😉 It'll be a challenge to find native species that can coexist with the goldies but I think it can be done with proper habitat planning and careful stalking numbers. We'll find out!20210907_112038_HDR.thumb.jpg.01afb2dc08518a8e0688dc1bf11d279c.jpg

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On 10/2/2021 at 7:13 PM, Lenae98 said:

I understand that you feel adamant about this but based on everything I've read about koi/goldfish hybrids there are no studies that have shown they can reproduce at all. I'm sure as with most things in nature there are occasional exceptions to the rule but for the most part we would not be talking about breeding true but sterile fish.

Are you suspicious of their entire Shubunkin stalk or just certain color varieties? My confusion comes in that I know the distributor who I received my Blackwater Sanke and sky blue Shubunkin from. In that shipment she had the shubunkins and Sarassas and she had a spawning from that same shipment. The colors are still developing to see if she got any Sankes or sky blue coloration and whether they "bred true" or not, but she definitely has Shubunkin fry and there shouldn't be any Shubunkin fry if these were hybrids. Attached is a picture of the still developing fry. 

Either way I take my recommendations seriously and feel knowing if these are hybrids important information for me to include in future recommendations. I have contacted Blackwater Creek Koi Farm directly regarding the matter and will report back to the group with their response.

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To follow up on our lively discussion from a few days ago. Blackwater Creek Koi Farm did get back with me regarding whether their Sanke Shubunkins are Hybrids. I've attached their response in interest of trying to give buyer as much information as possibleScreenshot_20211008-141819.thumb.png.35aa682684632be615bf9eb5ecbdcfb2.pngScreenshot_20211008-141819.thumb.png.35aa682684632be615bf9eb5ecbdcfb2.png

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That answer is the type of answer I expected. They also carefully dodged answering the last question - but whoever replied when I asked answered it. I asked years and years ago BTW, not recently.

They very well may have not mixed in any Koi genetics. It would be hard to develop a line of fish from such a mix as MOST Koi/Goldfish hybrids are not able to breed. 

But absolutely NO ONE has been able to replicate that Sanke pattern in goldfish... it belongs solely to them... which is why they give the fish those names. They definitely have a well guarded secret that nobody can crack as of yet.

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20 hours ago, mjfromga said:

That answer is the type of answer I expected. They also carefully dodged answering the last question - but whoever replied when I asked answered it. I asked years and years ago BTW, not recently.

They very well may have not mixed in any Koi genetics. It would be hard to develop a line of fish from such a mix as MOST Koi/Goldfish hybrids are not able to breed. 

But absolutely NO ONE has been able to replicate that Sanke pattern in goldfish... it belongs solely to them... which is why they give the fish those names. They definitely have a well guarded secret that nobody can crack as of yet.

I am curious how you get to speak to such a large cross section of the hobby's breeders? I think those would be some terribly fascinating events to attend or are they forums? If so could you make some recommendations for the best events or online groups for someone new to the hobby? I have no intention to breed but I do find all aspects of keeping goldfish.. Even koi interesting as I feel I learn something useful that allows me to better care for my fish in almost every resource on the topic. I have found this forum to be extremely useful. I learn more quickly through discussion with my peers. You seem to have been around hobby awhile so I was wondering where would be the best resources for a newbie?

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If you can find the fish elsewhere, I will take back what I said. Period. I've been to several goldfish and Koi shows, been a member of a Koi club, and talked to many Koi keepers.

Goldfish are junk to many of them period, but many of them definitely try and breed and sell goldfish as there's more of a market for them due to affordability and keeping requirements. They even sometimes sneer at people who actually pay good money for pond type goldfish. In 20,000 gallon Koi ponds, it is BEYOND easy to grow some goldfish to nice sizes quickly and sell them for decent prices. So that's what they do.

Koi keepers are extremely selective with color patterns and extremely good with selective breeding. If this color were able to be replicated, it would be quite widespread by now and Blackwater wouldn't be able to charge so much for the fish or give them specific names. Remember - the fish are a 20 year endeavor... they aren't new. As they said, it is the farms most well guarded secret. And well guarded it is.

As for resources, this site is a good one. Have a good one.

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