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The fishless cycle. A possible limiting factor?


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So, I've been doing a fair bit of reading about cycling an aquarium (well, what else is there to do while your tanks cycling?). Anyway, one thing I noticed in the scientific papers (yeah, I went there too) is that they were discussing the carbon source for the bacteria. Which got me thinking, would the use of a carbon source such as seachem flourish excel turbo charge the process?

 

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From my understanding, nitrifiers utilise CO2 with the exception of some that can utilise carbon converted from urea. The active ingredient in Seachem Flourish Excel is gluteraldehyde which is effective as an algaecide to spot dose with but not so much a carbon source for plants, for example. This does, however, reduce the CO2 uptake via algae, leaving more available.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than myself can input. :)

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On 9/19/2021 at 9:22 PM, hannah said:

From my understanding, nitrifiers utilise CO2 with the exception of some that can utilise carbon converted from urea. The active ingredient in Seachem Flourish Excel is gluteraldehyde which is effective as an algaecide to spot dose with but not so much a carbon source for plants, for example. This does, however, reduce the CO2 uptake via algae, leaving more available.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than myself can input. :)

I didn't know that's how flourish excel worked! I wish there were more resources online to learn about stuff like this in depth. That's what I loved about this forum when I joined. There were a lot of people around who were very knowledgeable about fishkeeping.

Now everyone seems to be on groups on social media and think their opinion is fact. Just this morning I've witnessed someone tell a newbie that if they do a 50% WC during their cycle they are restarting their cycle. Now, If I stepped in and said 'well, I've actually cycled an aquarium while doing 75%+ everyday' egos would get hurt. There's a goldfish rescue group that states they will ban anybody who recommends salt as a medication for goldfish as its inhumane and that they won't rehome fancies to people with ponds. 

I suppose what I'm saying is I miss the times when there was a depth of knowledge available. Not just loads of groups spreading around the same half-truths as gospel. When I first joined this forum I literally trawled the site absorbing everything.

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7 hours ago, colley614 said:

I didn't know that's how flourish excel worked! I wish there were more resources online to learn about stuff like this in depth. That's what I loved about this forum when I joined. There were a lot of people around who were very knowledgeable about fishkeeping.

Now everyone seems to be on groups on social media and think their opinion is fact. Just this morning I've witnessed someone tell a newbie that if they do a 50% WC during their cycle they are restarting their cycle. Now, If I stepped in and said 'well, I've actually cycled an aquarium while doing 75%+ everyday' egos would get hurt. There's a goldfish rescue group that states they will ban anybody who recommends salt as a medication for goldfish as its inhumane and that they won't rehome fancies to people with ponds. 

I suppose what I'm saying is I miss the times when there was a depth of knowledge available. Not just loads of groups spreading around the same half-truths as gospel. When I first joined this forum I literally trawled the site absorbing everything.

Yes, unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation out there. However I have learnt things from groups on social media There is some good information, you just have to fact check and research more in depth yourself to verify it. ;)

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5 hours ago, hannah said:

Yes, unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation out there. However I have learnt things from groups on social media There is some good information, you just have to fact check and research more in depth yourself to verify it. ;)

I tend to do a lot of research. I watch certain YouTubers for hours on my days off. I'm at a point in the hobby now where I can happily sit and watch someone take apart a canister filter for 2 hours and discuss the pros and cons of it rather than watching someone pacing up and down talking really really fast like they are borderline caffeine overdosed. 

Maybe I'm just at a different point in the hobby than I was back then. There's only so many new people you can talk though a cycle. 

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On 9/21/2021 at 2:06 AM, colley614 said:

I didn't know that's how flourish excel worked! I wish there were more resources online to learn about stuff like this in depth. That's what I loved about this forum when I joined. There were a lot of people around who were very knowledgeable about fishkeeping.

Now everyone seems to be on groups on social media and think their opinion is fact. Just this morning I've witnessed someone tell a newbie that if they do a 50% WC during their cycle they are restarting their cycle. Now, If I stepped in and said 'well, I've actually cycled an aquarium while doing 75%+ everyday' egos would get hurt. There's a goldfish rescue group that states they will ban anybody who recommends salt as a medication for goldfish as its inhumane and that they won't rehome fancies to people with ponds. 

I suppose what I'm saying is I miss the times when there was a depth of knowledge available. Not just loads of groups spreading around the same half-truths as gospel. When I first joined this forum I literally trawled the site absorbing everything.

I have to agree with ya. One reason I have tried to very hard to keep this forum running. All the points that you touched on are some of the reasons I keep this up.

Having a place where you are aloud to talk and express what you have done or been through with fish is nice. We wont get upset with ya. We wont judge ya either. Everyone has a right to ask for help, receive it and then choose what to do with it. We may not all agree but we can all learn from each others experiences.

I  hope I made since with that :crazy:

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23 hours ago, colley614 said:

I've just watched pond gurus new video and in it he states flourish excel speeds up the cycle massively.

Wow. I wonder what is in there that would help in the cycle? 

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koko
This post was recognized by koko!

colley614 was awarded the badge 'Helpful' and 20 points.

5 hours ago, koko said:

Wow. I wonder what is in there that would help in the cycle? 

I read a scientific paper discussing the types of bacteria that grow in an established aquarium and how they are different from a lot of bacteria in a bottle. The paper discussed a possible limiting factor being the carbon source only being carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. 

I did a Google search and found that nitrifying bacteria grow 8x faster with a carbon source. Which got me thinking flourish excel is supposed to be a liquid carbon source for plants and made me post this thread.

Anyway, since watching the pond guru doing his filtration videos, he's mentioned that the trace elements and carbon in excel speed up the cycle. He also said that prime limits the cycle as it converts the ammonia into a form that is safe for fish but the beneficial bacteria can't utilise.

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On 9/29/2021 at 9:07 PM, colley614 said:

I read a scientific paper discussing the types of bacteria that grow in an established aquarium and how they are different from a lot of bacteria in a bottle. The paper discussed a possible limiting factor being the carbon source only being carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. 

I did a Google search and found that nitrifying bacteria grow 8x faster with a carbon source. Which got me thinking flourish excel is supposed to be a liquid carbon source for plants and made me post this thread.

Anyway, since watching the pond guru doing his filtration videos, he's mentioned that the trace elements and carbon in excel speed up the cycle. He also said that prime limits the cycle as it converts the ammonia into a form that is safe for fish but the beneficial bacteria can't utilise.

Hey! That makes totally since. When I had a full planted tank it cycled very fast and I assumed it was from the plants. But now I see it was cause I was feeding the tank with Excel at that point. I also has a Co2 machine on it.

Thank you. :) 

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14 hours ago, koko said:

Hey! That makes totally since. When I had a full planted tank it cycled very fast and I assumed it was from the plants. But now I see it was cause I was feeding the tank with Excel at that point. I also has a Co2 machine on it.

Thank you. :) 

Thanks Koko,

I've been doing a lot of reading about the beneficial bacteria and I'm getting very sceptical of a lot of claims companies make.

I'm starting to think that a 4 inch substrate is under rated. The salt water hobbyists seem to get this but the freshwater side seem to have been bombarded with fx6 and prime, fx6 and prime. From what I've been reading, it seems that an undergravel filter with 4 inches of substrate could be amazing at breaking everything down, especially if facultative bacteria are cultured in the deeper 2 inches of the substrate. In theory this means the top 2 inches would convert ammonia to nitrate, while the other 2 inches break down organics and process nitrate. 

I'm still doing a lot of reading but but plants and substrate seems to play a bigger role than plastic filters media that bacteria arguably find hard to colonise.

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