Condition of my Goldfish's Eyes

[kshoggi1]

https://i.imgur.com/rTsued9.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/gOroDmT.jpeg

Please see the pictures linked above. There is an opaque white spot on one eye, which I took to be a scar initially. The other eye is now clouding over. He started bottom-sitting today and is pinned. Ate normally the last couple days. I do weekly water changes of about 50% and condition with Prime and Stability and a weco wonder shell. I did an extra water change for good measure today, but he immediately returned to the stressed behavior.

90g bare-bottom. No tankmates. Fluval fx6. Nothing changed recently.

 Ammonia Level(Tank) 0

 Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

 Nitrate level(Tank) 10

 Ammonia Level(Tap) 0

 Nitrite Level(Tap) 0 

 Nitrate level(Tap) 10

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? api drops

 Water temperature? 72

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 90g 2 years

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? fluval fx6

 How often do you change the water and how much? see above

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? see above

 How many fish in the tank and their size? see above

 What kind of water additives or conditioners? see above

 What do you feed your fish and how often? repashy soylent green gel food, once daily

 Any new fish added to the tank? no

 Any medications added to the tank? no

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. nothing recent.

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? see above

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? see above

[kshoggi1]

He is 5 years old

[koko]

It looks to be an onset of popeye or dropsies. 

What kind of meds do you have on hand? I do believe we are going to need a QT tank, Epsom salt. Then an Antibiotic too. @Arctic Mama Is my go to person here for meds. When she gets the chance Im sure she will know exactly what do do.

One question for you though. When was the last time that filter was cleaned out.

Oh and  

[kshoggi1]

31 minutes ago, koko said:

It looks to be an onset of popeye or dropsies. 

What kind of meds do you have on hand? I do believe we are going to need a QT tank, Epsom salt. Then an Antibiotic too. @Arctic Mama Is my go to person here for meds. When she gets the chance Im sure she will know exactly what do do.

One question for you though. When was the last time that filter was cleaned out.

Oh and  

I have Prazipro, paraguard, ich-x, methylene blue, stress-guard, melafix, pimafix, metroplex, kanaplex

I will move him to a smaller tank if we have to dose an expensive med, but I can dose epsom salt and/or regular salt in the main tank. What dose should I start with? For an antibiotic I think I would usually mix metro/kana in his food?

edit: filter was upgraded a few months ago. I migrated all of the filter media. I haven't cleaned it yet, but I have tested the water regularly. The flow is still very high.

[Arctic Mama]

Hi there! It’s difficult to tell at this point if the fluid retention around the eye is because of actual systemic dropsy causing the pop eye or an ocular infection, alone. The treatment is going to look the same at this point, but we may have to adjust if it doesn’t clear up with this med.

in your hospital tank or buckets, dose Kanaplex in the main tank. NO EPSOM SALT right now - not because it might not help, but because I want to see if the eye responds solely to antibiotics (an infection that is localized) as opposed to dropsy being alleviated with some fluid shifting. Ten days of Kanaplex in warm, clean water. We should see improvement within four or five days, at least less haziness of the lens of the eye, if it’s working. Do you need more specific instructions?

[kshoggi1]

6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Hi there! It’s difficult to tell at this point if the fluid retention around the eye is because of actual systemic dropsy causing the pop eye or an ocular infection, alone. The treatment is going to look the same at this point, but we may have to adjust if it doesn’t clear up with this med.

in your hospital tank or buckets, dose Kanaplex in the main tank. NO EPSOM SALT right now - not because it might not help, but because I want to see if the eye responds solely to antibiotics (an infection that is localized) as opposed to dropsy being alleviated with some fluid shifting. Ten days of Kanaplex in warm, clean water. We should see improvement within four or five days, at least less haziness of the lens of the eye, if it’s working. Do you need more specific instructions?

Thank you!! Kanaplex in the water, food, or in both? What temperature do you recommend?

[kshoggi1]

He had a small white stringy poop just now. I've filled a 10 gallon tank and set up a 20g rated filter (no charcoal), heater, and airstone.

I'll move him there tomorrow and start kanaplex as you suggested. I've never had such a large fish in such a small tank - I'm guessing I shouldn't feed him while he's in there?

[Arctic Mama]

In the water, I redone it daily at full strength after a complete water change, because the ammonia builds up otherwise. You can sometimes stretch it with very light feeds but you don’t want to stress the fish with zero food, either. It takes more medication to do it this way but I think the results for water quality and potency are superior. 
 

Scooping the fish into some Tupperware or a little glass bowl, changing out the water and redosing the medication, and then scooping them back in with your hand is the easiest way to do this.

I like my temperature as warm as they can stand it, usually 78-80 degrees F. With a good air stone bubbling away they usually aren’t gasping at this heat, though some fish are more sensitive than others. Bump the temp up slowly, obviously.

[kshoggi1]

19 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

In the water, I redone it daily at full strength after a complete water change, because the ammonia builds up otherwise. You can sometimes stretch it with very light feeds but you don’t want to stress the fish with zero food, either. It takes more medication to do it this way but I think the results for water quality and potency are superior. 
 

Scooping the fish into some Tupperware or a little glass bowl, changing out the water and redosing the medication, and then scooping them back in with your hand is the easiest way to do this.

I like my temperature as warm as they can stand it, usually 78-80 degrees F. With a good air stone bubbling away they usually aren’t gasping at this heat, though some fish are more sensitive than others. Bump the temp up slowly, obviously.

Thank you. You answered all my questions. I'll let you know how everything is going in 4 days or so

[kshoggi1]

Well here are some treatment day 0 pics. Easier to see in the QT. Bonus pics of Mel hunting his breakfast

I'll do 100% wc and redose kanaplex each morning

[hannah]

Okay I just had to comment because Mel is huge! Sending him well wishes!

[kshoggi1]

3 days in. Tolerating 82 degrees just fine. I'm feeding one chunk of food per day (usually 3-4). Behavior is fairly normal. 

No change in the eyes. Red streaking in the tail.

The tap water in this area has disgustingly high chlorine content so I am always double dosing prime.

I got hold of some Furan-2 if that becomes needed.

[Arctic Mama]

So to be clear you’ve seen improvements in behavior, but new tail streaks? Or were those happening before?

 

The eye actually looks good. There is definitely an infection and he may lose it, but it doesn’t look like it’s spreading around the rest of his body/head. If the tail streaks are new you may try turning the temp down a few degrees and seeing if the intensity of the streaks lessens to more of a low grade pink rather than blood red. Streaking takes a long time to subside fully, but sometimes stress from heat can exacerbate it.

[kshoggi1]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

So to be clear you’ve seen improvements in behavior, but new tail streaks? Or were those happening before?

 

The eye actually looks good. There is definitely an infection and he may lose it, but it doesn’t look like it’s spreading around the rest of his body/head. If the tail streaks are new you may try turning the temp down a few degrees and seeing if the intensity of the streaks lessens to more of a low grade pink rather than blood red. Streaking takes a long time to subside fully, but sometimes stress from heat can exacerbate it.

I guess the behavior is about the same as before, with some normal behavior and some bottom-sitting.  I guess now I'm attributing the bottom-sitting more to him being cramped/bored and stressed from the treatment rather than from illness...

The streaks are new. I thought it might be related to water quality but I can't do more than 100% water change per day and I don't think the source water is great.

I will turn down the temp a few degrees.

[kshoggi1]

By some incredible coincidence the main tank sprang a leak today.

Guess I get to spend memorial day taking it down and resealing it 

Hope Wal-Mart has enough silicone!!!

[koko]

1 hour ago, kshoggi1 said:

By some incredible coincidence the main tank sprang a leak today.

Guess I get to spend memorial day taking it down and resealing it 

Hope Wal-Mart has enough silicone!!!

Oh No's  

[kshoggi1]

OK starting day 7 of treatment now. Here are some pictures. Hard to tell if there is improvement. The area around the white spot certainly seems more clear. The other eye is perhaps slightly more clear as well. Lowering the temp to 79-80 seems to have reduced the redness of the veins.

[spider man]

Were the eyes the same size/shape before you started the treatment because the only thing I see is pearling of the eye. This is similar to cataract in people and is not treatable. So long as the fish is able to find food he is ok. The white long poo you mentioned may be an indication of a parasitic issue or could just be something he ate

[koko]

I am starting to think that the eye has cataract to it. Like @spider man said nothing you can do for that. 

[kshoggi1]

15 hours ago, spider man said:

Were the eyes the same size/shape before you started the treatment because the only thing I see is pearling of the eye. This is similar to cataract in people and is not treatable. So long as the fish is able to find food he is ok. The white long poo you mentioned may be an indication of a parasitic issue or could just be something he ate

It's hard to tell for me but here's a slightly better pic from before treatment, and then a close-up from today. It really looks a bit (to me) like there is some Popeye...

I was hoping it was just a cataract too, and I don't know if it is or not for sure. If you Google corneal infection you'll see that (in people) they can look a lot like what Mel has. Google results show cataracts (in people) that seem to be almost perfectly circular. Mel's spot is slightly irregular, like some of the corneal infections.

[kshoggi1]

Today is day 10. Final day of Kanaplex. His eyes look largely the same as they did on day 7.

I'll happily follow the advice of @Arctic Mama as to further treatment. Otherwise I'll just return him to main tank tomorrow with some duckweed and a round of Prazi (never hurt) and keep a close eye on his eyes 👀.

As far as I can tell from the hospital tank his behavior is quite normal.

[Arctic Mama]

If his behavior and eating are normal I wouldn’t pursue further treatment at this time. The clouding of the lens is harmless if there aren’t further signs of infection

[kshoggi1]

@Arctic Mama I was concerned that it looks like a *bit* of swelling behind the right eye. If it looks ok to you that's good enough for me. 

 

If it does happen to progress towards popeye later, is kanaplex still the recommended treatment? I want to stay ahead of serious problem.

[Arctic Mama]

If it progressed to pop eye we would use a combo of a different gram negative antibiotic (oxytetracycline is my favorite heavier hitter that is still broad spectrum) plus metronidazole. If those don’t nail it, it’s not bacterial in nature and we are pretty constrained on other treatments.