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spottedpony

Red cap oranda turning black

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Help not sure if it is black ick or what.   20 gal tank ( have moved to 10 gal hospital tank) water change weekly, PH 7.6, Ammo 0-.25, NO2 0, NO3 10-20,

Have started treating with prazipro, . I have had this fish for 5 years or more.  He seem find other than color change, though he does dive to bottom and bump his head sometimes. He has alway been a medical disaster. Have treated swim bladder, red streak fins, wen surgery,  over the years, and now this.  I am not sure how to share photo

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:hi and :welcome

 

Please copy & paste the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

 

Test Results for the Following:

 Ammonia Level(Tank)

 Nitrite Level(Tank)

 Nitrate level(Tank)

 Ammonia Level(Tap)

 Nitrite Level(Tap)

 Nitrate level(Tap)

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

 Water temperature?

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

 How often do you change the water and how much?

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

 How many fish in the tank and their size?

 What kind of water additives or conditioners?

 What do you feed your fish and how often?

 Any new fish added to the tank?

 Any medications added to the tank?

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

"If copy and paste doesn't work for you, quote this post and put your answers after each question."

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Koko beat me to it. If you can also either hold the fish up against the glass or move them to a separate container and take macro pictures under bright light it would be helpful! The really clear closeups will help us see exactly what is going on with the individual scales and figure out if it is a problem or a normal color change.

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Test Results for the Following:

 Ammonia Level(Tank)  hard to tell - 0 to .25 the color is in between 0 and .25

 Nitrite Level(Tank)      0

 Nitrate level(Tank)    20

 Ammonia Level(Tap)

 Nitrite Level(Tap)

 Nitrate level(Tap)

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)   7.6

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?    Drops  API

 Water temperature    70

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?   20 gal running over 1 yr

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqueon  30  / did change filter to this one 2 months ago- lot of power outage.

 How often do you change the water and how much?   Weekly(1)  30 %

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  Last Wednesday raise water to 86 in case ick.. But him in hospital tank  10 gal with prazipro

 How many fish in the tank and their size?  1  Body about 2”

 What kind of water additives or conditioners?  Prime

 What do you feed your fish and how often?  1x day   Sera colorfood ( godly color spiraling) or top fin color enhance flakes

 Any new fish added to the tank? Had snail about 1 month ago but died

 Any medications added to the tank?  Not the 20 gal. But prazipro added 1 x to hospital tank, just moved him over there yesterday 

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.1 month ago added furan 2 to hospital tank   He had red streak in fin, but cleared up and he was fine then moved but to 20 gal

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? He does stay at top a lot but can and does swim up/down the whole tank

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9DB25E99-7F01-4166-8E0C-927B5505252D.jpeg

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How long has he been staying at the top for? Some fish do that when they have swim bladder problems or balance issues, which you’ve indicated he does, but if it or the red streaks are new symptoms that will change things a bit :)

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Also his belly looks a little pink and way too lean. You see him eat, correct? 

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2 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Also his belly looks a little pink and way too lean. You see him eat, correct? 

That's the first thing I noticed, the belly. I'm wonder if the fish has a parasite. Since snails can carry a lot bad guys, and it died. 

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without knowing your water parameters, the black could be indicative of ammonia burns and the fish is healing now. the fish looks very emaciated , what are you feeding him

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Test Results for the Following:

 Ammonia Level(Tank)  hard to tell - 0 to .25 the color is in between 0 and .25

 Nitrite Level(Tank)      0

 Nitrate level(Tank)    20

 Ammonia Level(Tap)

 Nitrite Level(Tap)

 Nitrate level(Tap)

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)   7.6

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?    Drops  API

 Water temperature    70

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?   20 gal running over 1 yr

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqueon  30  / did change filter to this one 2 months ago- lot of power outage.

 How often do you change the water and how much?   Weekly(1)  30 %

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  Last Wednesday raise water to 86 in case ick.. But him in hospital tank  10 gal with prazipro

 How many fish in the tank and their size?  1  Body about 2”

 What kind of water additives or conditioners?  Prime

 What do you feed your fish and how often?  1x day   Sera colorfood ( godly color spiraling) or top fin color enhance flakes

 Any new fish added to the tank? Had snail about 1 month ago but died

 Any medications added to the tank?  Not the 20 gal. But prazipro added 1 x to hospital tank, just moved him over there yesterday 

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.1 month ago added furan 2 to hospital tank   He had red streak in fin, but cleared up and he was fine then moved but to 20 gal

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? He does stay at top a lot but can and does swim up/down the whole tank

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Oh no Am I not feeding him enough? His belly is not pink it was just the reflection. But I had no idea he looked skinny! The red streaks were treated with Furan 2 in hospital tank and are now gone. Wouldn’t he Furan clear up any parasites if he had them? So not sure do you think it is color change and I should move him back in 20 gal tan,? He did have swim bladder a long time ago, but he still hangs out out top when not swimming. He does drive and swim all around the tank. How much should I feed him. ( I have had fish for many years but I can always learn something) Also as I state in about postI do have trouble reading ammonia, it doesn’t look real as yellow as card but not the same as .25 either.

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1 hour ago, spottedpony said:

Oh no Am I not feeding him enough? His belly is not pink it was just the reflection. But I had no idea he looked skinny! The red streaks were treated with Furan 2 in hospital tank and are now gone. Wouldn’t he Furan clear up any parasites if he had them? So not sure do you think it is color change and I should move him back in 20 gal tan,? He did have swim bladder a long time ago, but he still hangs out out top when not swimming. He does drive and swim all around the tank. How much should I feed him. ( I have had fish for many years but I can always learn something) Also as I state in about postI do have trouble reading ammonia, it doesn’t look real as yellow as card but not the same as .25 either.

If it was me... I would test the tap water to see if ammonia, nitrites and nitrates in it. This way you know what your pouring back into the tank.

Furan kills certain kinds of bugs and Prazi the same way. So you may have killed off some of the bugs. But I'm wondering if the fish needs an internal medication.

@Arctic Mama would know the best. 

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Thank you all for your replies- I have sent message to Artic mom and see what she thinks of the internal meds. Thank you all again

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So first question, how much are you feeding him in terms of pellet size and number? I’m not very familiar with the food you posted, but we can help you zero in amounts with a picture of some on your hand.

His fins look like they’re healing and the black looks to be full scales and not brushed on dustily, which would be what we’d expect if there was injury or damage from ammonia. Parasites too, for the most part. I’m thinking the color shift is actually just a natural one for him - goldfish do not have particularly stable coloration and it can change throughout their life. I am still worried about the red fins and thinness, though. The medication that would address that, given his treatment history, would probably be metronidazole.

 

Metro can be ordered on Amazon or eBay, among other places. We would want to do a two week course of it. You could do it in the main tank but it will take more medication, bigger water changes, and you might see a slight cycle bump. But metro isn’t one known to nuke filters, which is good news. It’s your call on that. My dosing schedule for metro involved complete water changes every two days and a redone of medication as a minimum, for fourteen days total (so seven water changes). You’d want the tank warmed up to 78 degrees or so, as well.

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I know in the picture his fins look red but he has orange color on his fins, they have always been like that. So actually his fins color is his natural color except now some black is creeping in. I have treated him for red streaks but thank goodness he has healed from that. The Metro med you mention you think would be better than General cure?  When you say complete water change- 100% or what? And then redoes the original 1st amount. The picture shows the food I have  been using- I feed 1x day in am and it is about a pinch of food. I only use one type of food per day

CC40EDA5-2796-4DDB-BDB8-C790B50BEA12.jpeg

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Metroplex is one brand of metronidazole, yes. There are others but Seachem is the most commonly available. Okay, so for those foods, the one on the right was the one I was least familiar with.

 

Flakes are hard to feed, they’re not very nutrient dense and degrade quickly. Pellets are better. But for flakes for a fish that size, I’d say two heavy pinches (about a quarter teaspoon) in the morning, and then about fifteen pellets in the evening. How does that compare to how you’re feeding now?  If it’s about the same volume I’d be more concerned about a wasting issue with a parasite than if you’re significantly under feeding or he’s having a hard time finding food because of the wen size.

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As for General Cure, I don’t mind it, if you have it on hand. It will probably take three or four boxes of it though, to treat twenty gallons completely every two days for two weeks (or longer, but we start out with two weeks). We do NOT follow the instructions on the box, that dosing tends to leave water quality deteriorating and the meds not dwelling long enough. 

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😢😢oh no I have been starving him! No I have not been giving him near as much food as you say I should. I will start feeding him more and switch to pellets for both meals. Maybe he doesn’t need the med? Maybe I have just been under feeding?

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You can certainly try upping the feeds for a few weeks and seeing how things go. I do want you to keep an eye on your nitrates, though. You want to clean your filter when the edge from 10 up to 20 ppms, and not let them go past. With significantly more food comes more waste, and that will drive your nitrates up much higher. This means servicing your filter and removing the detritus and mulm accumulated will need to happen more often - usually every month, sometimes more.

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Ok  thank you- or do you think I should go ahead and do the med also

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You can try the feeding first. Based on what you have indicated none of the symptoms are significant enough right now that I’d assume that’s what is going on.

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Thank you so much - I will stop bugging ya😁and let you good to bed! I am! I will try the increased feeding and see how it goes. And the filter maintenance. Thank you again

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I tested the tap water(we are on a well). PH 6.4.  Ammo.  .25 Hard to tell color not quite yellow on chart    Nitrite 0.  Nitrate 5.0        
 The tank runs PH. 7.4 to 7.6.  Ammo.   .25 Hard to tell color.     Nitrite  0.      Nitrate.  20. 
is this ok of is there something I should do 

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15 hours ago, spottedpony said:

I tested the tap water(we are on a well). PH 6.4.  Ammo.  .25 Hard to tell color not quite yellow on chart    Nitrite 0.  Nitrate 5.0        
 The tank runs PH. 7.4 to 7.6.  Ammo.   .25 Hard to tell color.     Nitrite  0.      Nitrate.  20. 
is this ok of is there something I should do 

Well your water is good in the fact the PH goes up on ya..that's a very good thing. 

If you can you could to a test on the ammonia and take a photo of it. Just make sure to have both test tubs at the same distance on the card. We could try and help ya :)

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those flake foods are horrible and low in nutrition for goldfish. Pellets are better but you may want to invest in a gel food such as those repashy products that you can also order on line.   Furan is a bacterial medication and prazi is for parasites. If you have not introduced any new fish plants or snails  I would doubt parasites but you never know. Most  medical issues with goldfish are usually related to poor water quality which weakens the fish immune system causing secondary bacterial and viral infections. to set in

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