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spillie

Butterfly Oranda rests and floats "head up"

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I have a butterfly oranda who goes vertical when he stop swimming,  He rests on his tail, vertically (head up)  on the tank bottom or floats up vertically.  But as soon as he starts to swim, he swims totally normally.  Other fish are fine.  I don't know if is the weight of his tail or a health issue. The guy I bought him from advised me to raise the heat to 76 and add salt.  I did raise the tank temp today, but it doesn't seem to have made a difference.  I have not yet added salt. He also told me to fast him two days--but I have already tried that with no change in the vertical thing. He started doing this shortly after I added him to the big tank, but definitely did not in he two weeks he was in the 20 G long QT tank. He has been in the big tank about 4 weeks or so.  I did have high nitrites in the beginning as had a cycle bump. Now zero.

 

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrate level(Tank)  If you have a test kit, take these readings before you do a water change. If you don't have a test kit and can't get one immediately, please take samples of tank and tap water to your fish /pet store and request a test. Demand numbers for each test. 20 before yesterday's water change, 10 now (30 hours later)

* Ammonia Level(Tap) 

* Nitrite Level(Tap) 

* Nitrate level(Tap) Please test tap water. It may contain ammonia or nitrate.  Tap water often varies in quality with weather/season, so don't just report an old test.  

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Difference in the pH of tank and tap can cause distress in your fish. We need both tap and tank results. 7.4

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)   If you don't have KH and GH tests and have municipal water, you can often get this information from the water company. 7.4

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  Please answer both brand and type. API drops

* Water temperature?  If you don't use a heater, give the the air temperature. 70 usually, just raised to 76

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?  Please answer both questions. If you aren't sure of the volume of the tank, give the length, width, and height.  135 gallons, running about 2.5 or 3 months. Bare bottom tank with a rock and piece of driftwood and an airstone.

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? By the "size" of the filter we mean the gph/lph that it claims to turn over. Fluval FX6

* How often do you change the water and how much? Please answer both questions. Twice a week, 80%

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Please answer both questions.  yesterday 80%

* How many fish in the tank and their size?  1 butterfly oranda 4.5", 1 telecope 4", 1 oranda 2.5", 2 orandas 1.5", 1 oranda 1.25" (6 total)

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Water conditioner means the agent used against chlorine.  If you don't use a water conditioner, say why, for example, "well water."  "Water additives" include anything else that you regularly or recently have added to your water, including buffers, water clarifiers, algaecides, etc. Fritz ammonia. chlorine and cloramine remover

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Give the brand, type of food (sinking/floating pellets, gel food, steamed vegetable, etc.), and how frequently you feed each. North Fin goldfish food, once a day, sinking pellets.

* Any new fish added to the tank? If you have added new fish in the past few months, indicate which ones,  the duration of quarantine, and any treatments you used during quarantine. 5 fish (inlcudinh this one) were added to the original fish about 1 month + ago after 2 weeks QT.  No treatment during QT

* Any medications added to the tank? This includes any used recently or currently in the tank. Added prazi to big tank when i first added the 5 fish to the big tank (I had not received it when they were in QT).

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  This can be a long answer if you have a sickly fish.  You can link to old D/D threads if we have advised on treatment before. Only Prazi, two treatments 4 days apart or so.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? List all physical symptoms. No

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? List all behavioral symptoms. Rest on his tail with his head straight up on the tank of floats up vertically,

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fish 2.jpg

fish 3.jpg

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It looks to me that his swim bladder has a problem.

If it was me I would put that fish back in the 20L tank with filtration. I would then find if you can....Duck Weed. It is the plant that works wonders on fish with this problem. Just float it in the tank, but I only put in a little at a time so the fish can eat it all up and not go into my filter. You could built a floating ring and see if you can keep the Duckweed from going all over the place.

If that doesn't work we can see if medications might help. But this is the way I would go first. 

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Thank you, Koko!  I'll see if I can find duckweed and give that a try.  I know an aquarium plant guy who I think has it just growing in several of his tanks,

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1 hour ago, spillie said:

Thank you, Koko!  I'll see if I can find duckweed and give that a try.  I know an aquarium plant guy who I think has it just growing in several of his tanks,

That stuff has worked wonders on my fish. I have a feeling that this fish of yours might need to be in a long tank rather than a tall tank.

If that swim bladder has been damaged in any way, then the fish cant control it and can't really float right. With a long tank there isn't much going up and down so less work on the swim bladder. Does that make since? 

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Yeah I’d have to see a video of your little guy swimming, but buoyancy issues without other symptoms are often swim bladder related, and diet can help keep it from being exacerbated by constipation. However ultimately it is physiological to the animal and not really fixable, if that is the case.

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Sad;y, he died the day after I wrote back to Koko's post. I had just got my 20 long out of storage to set up for him, but when I went to the big tank, he had passed away.  It's such a mystery to me how big goldfish, which have lived long enough with a breeder to get so big, can suddenly develop swim bladder. He was fine when I bought him and this started after about a week in my big tank. All I can think is, absent a bacterial problem, it must be the food (pellets), even if presoaked.  I am not sure... there were also high nitrates at the beginning because  of cycle bump. Seem like it must be one or the other, as he had no other symptoms-- no pineconing, no bloody steaks, was eating normally---what do you think? 

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So that’s why a video of the swimming can be helpful. Sometimes a fish lacks buoyancy because of the swim bladder, but it can also be because they’re too weak to swim and fight the current of the bubbler or filter. A swimbladder fish will often paddle around and seek food and such with vigor, a weaker fish will tend to bob and rest more, or corkscrew when poked to swim. Sometimes internal problems can be the cause, no pathogen. But there are also viral snd bacterial infections that can attack without significant external symptoms. Without more history snd tank detail it’s hard to tell. Those newer additions could certainly have brought in a pathogen of some sort that was persisting at a low level in them with no issue, but proliferated in your weaker oranda without immunity. It happens a lot, actually.

 

I’m sorry he passed, if you have issues in the future please do reach out and we can try to help. If everyone else has zero symptoms I don’t recommend a treatment right now beyond something like Paraguard, just to be safe, but if you see any weirdness at all touch bases right away and we will try to get to the bottom of it.

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