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Chris1251

Looks like she is egg bound...

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Hi, Chris here...  I know, long time no speak...  I hope all is well all...  Life sure has become more challenging these days...  Thank goodness The covid virus is not a fishy issue....

I have a beautiful bronze female Oranda...  Just about 2 years old...  I believe she has become egg 🥚 bound...  I have always kept males so that I wouldn’t have this issue...  But, she was a gift along with her brother at about 3 months old...  So identifying the sex was a best guess with them being so young...  She and her brother have been strong robust fish...  Pepper ( my female) has grow strong and large...  She approximately 9 inches long...  In the spring she dropped eggs on 3 or 4 occasions without issue and my males loved having a caviar snack...  She did this without assistance from the boys...  The boys are to dumb to figure out what to do when she did drop eggs other than enjoying a snack... 🤪🤪🤪

I have placed her in quarantine and have dosed the tub with Aqueon Water conditioner, API Stress zyme & Melafix...  Also added Epsom salt at 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons.   She has not been fed today...  Tub temp matched to the tank temp of 76 degrees..

Test Results for the Following:

 Ammonia Level(Tank)  0

 Nitrite Level(Tank)  0

 Nitrate level(Tank)  0

 Ammonia Level(Tap)  .25

 Nitrite Level(Tap) 0

 Nitrate level(Tap)  0

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  7.4

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  7.4

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API fresh water master test kit....  drops

 Water temperature?  76

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?   75 gallon,  2 years

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?  HOB 2 Fuval 110s

 How often do you change the water and how much?  100% every 3 to 4 weeks

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  3 weeks

 How many fish in the tank and their size?  3...  2 males in addition to the female...  1 Ryukin - 6 inches, 1 Oranda - 8 inches

 What kind of water additives or conditioners?  Aqueon water conditioner and usually a wonder shell 🐚 

 What do you feed your fish and how often?  Once a day    Repashy gold and NLS Thera +A...  occasional sea weed.

 Any new fish added to the tank?  No

 Any medications added to the tank?  No

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  Prazi Pro one year ago,  2 weeks preventative treatment done yearly...

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?  Bloated belly...  White bubble in the vent...  No raised scales...

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?  She was eating regularly up to yesterday...  Lazy behavior for the last three days...  Today she rolled to one side with tail curved to the left side slightly...  She is responsive to attention...

Thanks in advance for your advice...

Chris

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Can you get close ups of her bottom. Everything looks good that I can see.

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Yes, i really need to see pictures. It is actually fairly rare for a longer bodied female to become egg bound, other internal issues are more common. If you posted pictures above they aren’t displaying for me :(

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Hi Shannon & Taryl,

Thanks for getting back to me...  Today is water change day for the tank...  So I’ve been up to my arm pits in Fishy water...  I also changed the hospital tub...  I redosed the tub with Epsom salt, Stress Zyme, and Melafix...  I also added a heater to the tub due to the temperature dropping over night from 76 to 71...

I’ve attached 3 photos, 1 from the top, 1 from the side and of course her bottom....

Hopefully you can give me some ideas on how to help her....

Thanks,  Chris

 

 

062DD8BE-E95C-4B66-9BA9-A0D9CD767FC2.jpeg

EB6D9533-87BA-47AB-A8F2-3020A177C243.jpeg

FF568D83-8EBA-4EEF-8267-96FFC85FEDDA.jpeg

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Hmm, she could be eggbound, her vent does look a bit distended. Did you try fasting her first and seeing if that helped with the rolling and buoyancy issues?

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Generally speaking, unless you go to a vet there isn’t a ton that can be done at home for an eggbound gosh except massage. This is a good video showing the process if you want to try it. Otherwise time, warm water, epsom salt dosed at 1/2 tsp per ten gallons... these can all help with additional swelling and abdominal pressure, but hand expressing is the only decent way to get the eggs out, and it can injure the fish if one isn’t very gentle.

We would not want to treat with any antibiotics or meds, unless signs of infection have set in like streaked fins, lethargy, or pineconing. But since she looks pretty healthy at present I’d probably try the epsom, fasting, and hand expression and see how it goes.

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Hi,

I started fasting her yesterday....  I will up the Epsom salt to 1/2 t from The 1/4 t per 10 gallons, that I put in the tub at today’s water change...  I’ve put a heater in the tub...  What do you recommend for a temp?  Right now the tub has warmed from 71 to 74...  I keep the tank right around 77.-78.  I’ll watch the video and try to give her a gentle messaging....

Thanks sooooo much,

Chris

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78 is fine.

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Hi Taryl,

Will do..  🙂

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Hi,  

Chris here....  My female has not improved...  She is still very bloated and floating alternating her side or belly up...  Still doing Epsom salts at 1/2 tsp for every 10  gallons,  gave her 4 peas on Wednesday and the appeared as waist on Friday....  only partially digested...  Her slime coat is heavier than normal...  I have been gently messaging her twice a day....  So, I’m guessing she not egg bound...  No dropsy as yet...  I’m just not sure how to proceed...  I started to add metroplex to her water the last two days...  No improvement... ☹️   Any advice would be wonderful...

 

thanks...  

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No, I wouldn’t start with metro. If it’s an infection, kanamycin or oxytetracycline is more likely to hit the appropriate bacterial culprit, so I usually like to start with a two week course of either of the two and only add in the metro if they’re not working or we have some symptoms indicating that it might be parasitic or one of the few gram positive infections we can see. 
 

Still eating is a great sign, but it’s likely not constipation if you’re seeing the peas, so just go ahead and feed lightly and keep her stress low during treatment, but I wouldn’t try to hand express any eggs or mess with her much more at this point. If the antibiotics are working you should see improvement by days 4-7.

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Hi Taryl,

 

Will start the Oxy food today...  And put some kana in the water....  

Thank you....  🤞🤞🤞

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Do one, not both! The medicated food is probably a good bet, but you can do additional organ damage by doing too much, together, and kana is VERY harsh on the liver and kidneys compared to others in the class. Do you need instructions on how to best feed medicated flakes or do you have that already?

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Hi Taryl,

I have done a water change to remove the kana and uneaten food...  I have decided to feed her in a bucket outside the tub so there will not be any uneaten food in her hospital tub...  Also it will allow me to see how much she is eating based on her waste in the tub...  This morning I gave her 3 pinches of the Oxy food...  She ate the first, part of the second and spit out the third... while in her holding bucket...  She is still is very bloated...  Kind of like a water balloon...  I inspected her closely and there is a hint that  pineconing is starting...  Looking very weary closely there is a slight lift of her scales beginning...She had one tiny poo 💩 , a little over 1/2 inch of last nights Oxy food in the tub this morning...  

Thank you....  🤞🤞🤞

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Okay, did you weigh her and calculate how much to feed by body weight? One mouthful at a time of the medicated food you portion out, it can’t be in the water more than about ten seconds before it becomes worthless and the meds seep out into the water column (and then concentration is then too low to be helpful).

It depends on your specific medicated food, but generally you feed 2% of the fish’s body weight in medicated food daily to get the right dose. It can be split into multiple small meal sessions if need be, but it can’t all be dumped in at once :)

If she is pineconing, continue with 1/2 tsp epsom salt, it can help that bloat a little while the meds work. But if she has internal issues that aren’t an infection (cancer, malfunctioning organs, malformed or burst swim bladder, etc) there isn’t much we can do.

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Good Morning Taryl and Shannon,

I want you thank you for your support and guidance in trying to help me treat Pepper, my beautiful bronze Oranda.  Unfortunately she has continued to deteriorate to the point I cannot let her continue to

suffer...  She has been a fighter, but she is to the point that a recovery isn’t looking possible...  She is sooooo bloated and fully pine coned, that from the inside out a wound is trying to open on her side...  She is not eating and I have been attempting to force feed her unsuccessfully...  For the last 9 days, every time I try to feed her she spits it right back out. I do know some of the food gets in her body but not enough to sustain and heal her...  So with a heavy heart I’m letting go over the rainbow bridge today...

This is shared in gratitude for you being here and being a wonderful source knowledge and support...

Thank you again, Hugs to both of you,

Chris. 💕

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I’m sorry! That’s sad news :( Now, next time if she isn’t eating we can try switching to just waterborne meds (spitting would be the cue that food isn’t a good route) but honestly with how this progressed and how firm she was (and in good health) until just recently, plus your good husbandry, I honestly suspect a tumor causing internal pressure and swelling and deforming her swim bladder. That would cause the swell snd bloat, and also explain how she didn’t show other signs of infection until it had progressed to the point of organ failure. Goldfish generally eat to the very last.

Hugs and best wishes! Sometimes there is little we can do, but you tried hard and were a great fish mom 🌹 

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Thank you Fishy Mandy and Taryl....  💕

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Im sorry hun.... I never like to hear this or see this. :bye2:

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