bullied fish?

[siena 0]

I ended up with 4 feeder fish as a joke. They are about 2 years old now. They all started in a 5 gallon tank, got larger so I put the 2 larger ones in a 10 gallon and left the 2 smaller in the 5. It got too much to care for 2 tanks, so I upgraded and put them all into a 37 gallon tank together. They were stressed out for about a week but have seemed to settle down. Now I noticed that the 3 seem to be chasing the smallest fish and I think some of his fins might be torn (I honestly don't know for certain). I am out of my testing kits, but the ph & nitrate levels were fine 2 days ago and the water is clear and at 74 degrees which seems to be their favorite. Do I need to remove this fish? I have already dismantled my other tanks to sell and I really don't want to keep 2 tanks again but I also don't want to lose this fish or to allow him to be bullied although they are not CONSTANTLY at him (in fact, right now, all 4 are swimming in various places alone). I would love ANY help on this.

[Arctic Mama 3,636]

Hi there! Could you give us a picture of your setup? We may be able to help you change the tank decor to hell establish some hiding places and new territory, which often helps the bullying and chasing.

[siena 0]

Gladly! I thought I had, but maybe not. I have attached a front view of my tank, they can get behind the large "reef" structure, and the larger plastic plants but they all tend to sleep in the corner behind the bubbler. I also included the best photo of the fish I am worried about highlighting the fin that IRL looks worse than the photo.  None of the other fish's fin seem to have that dip like this one.  Thank you for any help!!

[Arctic Mama 3,636]

Yikes, a few problems not related to the decor - the fish looks like he has had severe ammonia burns, his eyes should not be scarred like that, and the fin damage indicates illness, likely related to water quality issues. Do you have a test kit where we can evaluate your tank chemistry? 
 

You can move the decor around for sure, but I actually think the bullying is because this fish is sick and weakened, not because of territory. We can help you fix that and improve the conditions for all of them if it’s a current issue, which it looks to be. But the first step is outlining your care and water management and seeing if we can find a cause there

[siena 0]

Thank you! I was worried about their eyes - they all seem to have a bit of the discoloration. I have tried to keep my water quality good. I ordered a full test kit (I could only find the dip kind locally) and it is supposed to be in tomorrow. I do have some medicine which I used before. Melafix and pimafix but i dont remember what they had that made me get those. I also recently bought some Seachem Prime which says it detoxifies ammonia. Will the eyes recover? Now I am freaking out! I will post my water results as soon as I get my test. Thank you for your help!!

[koko 14,357]

2 hours ago, siena said:

Thank you! I was worried about their eyes - they all seem to have a bit of the discoloration. I have tried to keep my water quality good. I ordered a full test kit (I could only find the dip kind locally) and it is supposed to be in tomorrow. I do have some medicine which I used before. Melafix and pimafix but i dont remember what they had that made me get those. I also recently bought some Seachem Prime which says it detoxifies ammonia. Will the eyes recover? Now I am freaking out! I will post my water results as soon as I get my test. Thank you for your help!!

I got some Homework for ya  Sorry getting my 7 year old ready for school. But really read these links and they will really help you to understand better about your goldfish situation.

 

[siena 0]

Thank you so much!! I will definitely read these. Good luck with school and your 7 year old!

[koko 14,357]

4 hours ago, siena said:

Thank you so much!! I will definitely read these. Good luck with school and your 7 year old!

If you have any questions please ask.  

[siena 0]

Hello, again! I did read the homework you assigned and I got my test kit so here are my results:  ph 6.6 (I have been adding a ph corrective but it never seems to get it just right), high ph: 7.4, ammonia: .25ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: 0ppm. Like I mentioned, I had just moved them a week ago into this new tank but I am prepared to do a water change if need be. I typically change half the tank, but was a bit negligent because I had planned to move them. I did use some of the water from both of the tanks to start this one and ran it for a few days before I moved them over. I also used most of the ornaments and all of the gravel. I hope this helps you to help me help them! Lol

I hope school went well and that you had a great day!! Thank you again for your help!!

[koko 14,357]

6 hours ago, siena said:

Hello, again! I did read the homework you assigned and I got my test kit so here are my results:  ph 6.6 (I have been adding a ph corrective but it never seems to get it just right), high ph: 7.4, ammonia: .25ppm, NO2: 0ppm, NO3: 0ppm. Like I mentioned, I had just moved them a week ago into this new tank but I am prepared to do a water change if need be. I typically change half the tank, but was a bit negligent because I had planned to move them. I did use some of the water from both of the tanks to start this one and ran it for a few days before I moved them over. I also used most of the ornaments and all of the gravel. I hope this helps you to help me help them! Lol

I hope school went well and that you had a great day!! Thank you again for your help!!

Okay is this the tap water or the tank?  I should have told ya I need both  

Also I hate to say this but in the long run a 37 gallon tank can really hold just 2 of these fish. So taking out all the extra decorations is good cause you just game them more room for water. Every time you add things in the tank you displace there water making the take smaller

 

[siena 0]

Well, this was the tank water. I will have to test the tap water when I get home from work today.  i do put the water clearing stuff in it but I did not always let it sit overnight. Most times I did but there was a time or 2 when I forgot. I did have an ornament in the previous tank that the paint came off and clouded the water badly. I am wondering if that isn't where all of this started. I removed it quickly and changed the water but....

[siena 0]

Hello, Shannon (?), hope that name is correct!!

I did check my tap water and it is better than my tank water. The ph is 7.2, NO2 and NO3 are 0ppm, and the ammonia is also 0ppm... is there something I can treat my water with to help clear their eyes? Thank you so very much for all of your advice and help!!

 

[Arctic Mama 3,636]

Is this the same filter from the previous tank or is the whole setup new? 

[siena 0]

The filter is new. In fact, I just changed the insert last night (it was a Top fin set that came with the tank, filter and heater). But their eyes have been cloudy for over 6 months now so I am worried its irreparable at this point. I just don't want to cause further damage and I am hoping the 3 larger ones quit bullying the smallest one. I am considering putting my 5 gallon tank back up and moving him. Although, combining tanks was the entire point of upgrading to this tank. And I am limited on space so I don't know what I will do if I have to separate them again... you're so sweet to help me!! Thank you!!

[Arctic Mama 3,636]

Oh oh okay, the change of the filter is probably causing the current issues. If you toss the filter cartridge or begin a new system, your rank has to cycle all over again. Unless it is literally falling apart you really just need to rinse the filter cartridge in a bucket of tank water and knock it firmly against the side to shake off the poop and decaying food. That should be done every month or so, never rinsed in the sink or thrown away or the entire process starts over and you get these ammonia and nitrite spikes and lose the beneficial bacteria that help process the fish waste.

So you will need to keep testing your water every day or two, and basically once your ammonia hits .25 ppms it’s time for a water change. Eventually your ammonia won’t register and you’ll spike nitrites.  When that happens we keep those under .2 ppms with water changes, and eventually it will zero out and you’ll register nitrate again. Keep those under 10-20 ppms with 80% weekly water changes and your fish should be much happier. 

 

[siena 0]

Oh, wow. And here I thought I was doing a good thing by changing the filter medium when it got dirty! In the meantime, should I medicate the tank? I have melafix and primafix which is what I used when I first noticed their eyes

[Arctic Mama 3,636]

No meds right now, the issues look environmental. We may need to obtain some antibiotics but the goal right now is to work on water quality and tank maintenance and see if that solves the problem. Their eyes are scarred, and will probably stay that way. But a cleaner environment and pristine water quality will help their bodies best to heal from what I’m seeing. If we have other symptoms that indicate an infection we can treat that in a few weeks, but I’m not seeing anything right now that indicates that’s what is going on.

[siena 0]

Thank you all very much. I just hope they quit chasing the smallest one around. He does get away and then goes into a corner alone but I don't want the larger fis to kill him/her. Should I put that fish back into a separate tank?

[Arctic Mama 3,636]

You don’t need to separate him. If rearranging the tank doesn’t help, you can float a plastic colander or breeder box in there to give him a time out safe space to heal and not be chased

 

like these - https://hdsupplysolutions.com/p/plastic-5-quart-colander-p752520?cid=ppc_all_bi_pfd_Shop|HDSS|US|Food Service&s_kwcid=AL!10728!10!81226492389820!4584826053537487&ef_id=X2H9KQAAACTkWVIu:20200916065521:s