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Lunar

Help!! Aggressive Shubunkin goldfish!!

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Hello! So, I got a brank new 20 gallon tank for two Shubunkin goldfish last week. Yes, I know that they are pond fish and can outgrow the tank don't worry they are quite young and I am planning to get a bigger tank for them soon. It has been cycled well and the water parameters are perfect. Evey time I feed them they fight a LOT and I tried using a tank divider but the divider was a bit too short and the goldfish swam right over it and continued fighting. Every time during feeding they push each other around, chase each other in circles and such aggressive acts. I thought it was because of underfeeding but that is definitely not the case. I have fed them enough. One of the goldfish seems to be less active recently, but still eats well and searches for food in the substrate. I have tried everything, tank dividers, feeding them a bit more than usual and even using a net to separate them but no avail. What should I do? This is very alarming to me... please help I really don't want it to die due to stress..

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Also, they seem to be having constipation. They have stringy poo and I'm currently feeding them skinned peas. I've noticed that aggression starts usually during feeding time and as soon as I turn on the aquarium lights. But, they randomly start fighting as well so I'm not sure what to do please help!

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Hi, sorry for the slow reply. Are you able to get a video of the behavior?  And some photos of the fish?

 

Also if you could fill out this form, it would help a lot

 

Test Results for the Following:

 Ammonia Level(Tank)

 Nitrite Level(Tank)

 Nitrate level(Tank)

 Ammonia Level(Tap)

 Nitrite Level(Tap)

 Nitrate level(Tap)

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

 Water temperature?

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

 How often do you change the water and how much?

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

 How many fish in the tank and their size?

 What kind of water additives or conditioners?

 What do you feed your fish and how often?

 Any new fish added to the tank?

 Any medications added to the tank?

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

"If copy and paste doesn't work for you, quote this post and put your answers after each question."

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Thank you so much for replying and I cannot take a video of them but they basically try pushing each other around and chase each other round in circles.

Ammonia Level(Tank)

0ppm

 Nitrite Level(Tank)

0

 Nitrate level(Tank)

20ppm

 Ammonia Level(Tap)

0ppm

 Nitrite Level(Tap)

0ppm

 Nitrate level(Tap)

40ppm

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Ph level is at 6.5. Im sorry i dont have the kit for testing kh gh and chloramines

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Ph level is at 7. Im sorry i dont have the kit for testing kh gh and chloramines

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

API, drops

 Water temperature?

21 c

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

20 gallons, bought it on the 29th of sept and has been running for 2 weeks now

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

I am not exactly sure about this since the internak filter and aquarium came in together but brand is atman

 How often do you change the water and how much?

I change 35% of the water every week

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

35% and I changed it today btw

 How many fish in the tank and their size?

2 shubunkin goldfish and about 3 inches each including the tail

 What kind of water additives or conditioners?

No water additives and seachem prime is the conditioner being used

 What do you feed your fish and how often?

I am currently feeding them peas and sometimes pellets . I feed them once every day

 Any new fish added to the tank?

No

 Any medications added to the tank?

Yes, i use this medicine called fish saver it was recommended by the pet store

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

The staff member there told me to put around 2 drops every time i change the water

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

None

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I haven't heard of the fish saver before

I'm thinking this sounds like breeding behavior more than actual aggression. It can often look like aggression. But they do sound quite young for that.

I noticed your tank has only been set up for 2 weeks, I'd advise to keep a close eye on the water parameters as it would still be cycling and you'll need to watch out for ammonia/nitrite spikes.

I'd also recommend upping your waterchanges to at least 80% a week.  The fish are small at the moment so its manageable to have them in the 20g but the more waterchanges the better :)

As for the stringy poop, I would try doing a prazi treatment. You can either get prazi pro, or Praziquantel tablets/powder. 

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Even I had though that this might have been breeding behaviour but its way too aggressive so I just thought they were fighting all the time. The use their mouth to push the other's body and it happens whenever I feed. I fed them right now and they were eating fine but as soon as they noticed the other eating they quickly pushed each other. This causes the fish to spit their food out so I'm guessing feeding jealousy? I did feed them enough if I had fed them more they'd probably end up having some type of nasty disease caused by overfeeding.

Yes, will do I'll!! I'll be checking the water parameters often. :thumbup2:

Okay, I'll start doing 80% water changes every week from now on. 

Actually, I dont think I will be able to find the medication you've stated there.. you see here where I live you don't exactly get fish medication that often you'd only get the lower branded ones :I-Thank-You:

Could you also tell me how healthy poo looks like? 

Also, thank you so much for replying! :heart

 

 

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Oh dear, i found something new and vey peculiar.... one of the goldfish seems to be having one airbubble in their poo. It did that twice and each poo was short but stringy and had 1 bubble each and the exact moment the poo comes out it floats to the surface

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On 9/11/2020 at 9:34 PM, Lunar said:

Even I had though that this might have been breeding behaviour but its way too aggressive so I just thought they were fighting all the time. The use their mouth to push the other's body and it happens whenever I feed. I fed them right now and they were eating fine but as soon as they noticed the other eating they quickly pushed each other. This causes the fish to spit their food out so I'm guessing feeding jealousy? I did feed them enough if I had fed them more they'd probably end up having some type of nasty disease caused by overfeeding.

Yes, will do I'll!! I'll be checking the water parameters often. :thumbup2:

Okay, I'll start doing 80% water changes every week from now on. 

Actually, I dont think I will be able to find the medication you've stated there.. you see here where I live you don't exactly get fish medication that often you'd only get the lower branded ones :I-Thank-You:

Could you also tell me how healthy poo looks like? 

Also, thank you so much for replying! :heart

 

 

:hi and :welcome

Stringy poo can be a few things. 

What country do you live in? so we can help you better?

 

Also read this when you can it will help you :)

 

 

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I live in the UAE. I've started hand feeding the goldfishes and now they seem to be doing great other than the stringy poo of course. I've taken a look at those guidelines, they're very helpful! Thank you!

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23 hours ago, Lunar said:

I live in the UAE. I've started hand feeding the goldfishes and now they seem to be doing great other than the stringy poo of course. I've taken a look at those guidelines, they're very helpful! Thank you!

You could try using Mortans Canning salt in the tank. This may help them.

If you do find the salt let me know I will help ya.

Air in the poop means either the fish has some gas or maybe some kind of paricite in them. A healthy poo should look like a snake in the color of there food. So if you feed peas the poo should look like a nice snake looking poo. No air bubbles or kinks in it. 

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I will try getting some soon. Thank you so much for your help!! Sorry for asking too many questions, it's my first time having a tank. I used to have a fish bowl and ended up with 2 dead fancy goldfish :cry1 I actually have one more question, yesterday I did a 35% water change (ammonia increased a bit) and suddenly the fishes seem to be surfing the glass tank. Both of the goldfish would stand near the front glass and then circle around up and down. They'd swim up and down in circular motions. Is this something to be concerned about?

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I'm shocked to say the least... BOTH the goldfish were egg bound... Today was absolutely catastrophic... I always thought that one of the goldfish looked kinda swollen (belly) and that's why I thought it was constipated and started feeding peas. Today I noticed something coming out and it's vent looking odd... I was hoping they were eggs and turns out they were! She started laying loads of eggs and I took another bucket and filled it with water and dechlorinated and hand bred her. I took her out kept her in the water and slowly pressed her abdomen area. The eggs came out fine but she seemed a bit tried and weak so I kept her back into the tank. I was gonna get the other goldfish thinking that it was a male but as SOON as i tried scooping it out with a net A BUNCH OF EGGS just spurted out and nonetheless I was SHOCKED. It was a dream of mine to have baby goldfish but now they're both females :crySo... now I have hundreds of unfertilized eggs... I'm gonna keep it for 2 days just to see if anything happens maybe? I don't know, I'm shocked to say the least honestly really shocked... They seem to be doing fine however... doing normal stuff I wonder why they fought in the past? I've heard that 2 female goldfishes don't ever fight and all they do is play? I'm a bit perplexed 

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Oh you can ask all the questions you need. That's what we are here for.

Oh my she was really filled up...i bet she feels better. Be careful on hand stripping for eggs. If you push to hard you can hurt them.

Are they swimming good?

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Oh, I didn't know that I could hurt them by hand breeding. How do I know if they're okay and nothing is injured? Yes, they seem to be swimming okay and are quite active.

Also, my bad both goldfish were not egg bound, my silver shubunkin was egg bound while the orange one was the male.

I spotted the breeding tubercles, but the white dots are not dark they're very faint and I can only see the dots on one of the gill flaps and I don't really see any spots on the other one. Is this something to be concerned about?

Also, once the female goldfish started laying eggs, she started eating them too and so did the male goldfish. Prior to when she started laying the eggs, I didn't see any sort of chasing is that normal? 

How do I know if the eggs are fertilized or not?

How do I take care of the eggs if they hatch? What should i feed them? How do I care for them?

Currently, I don't have any sort of tank I'm planning to buy a plastic food safe container. I also don't have an air pump nor a filter. I'm planning to buy all these once I know that they're fertilized properly or not.

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If they are fertilized then in a couple of days you will be able to see the little eyes inside the eggs :) Otherwise they will turn white and get fuzzy.

 

I often see eggs without seeing any chasing, but also see them with chasing.

 

If they hatch, keep them in a shallow tub/tank. Daily waterchanges, when they are really small I like to use airline to drain and fill the tank so it doesn't disturb them too much. Or if I only have a couple I keep them in a small container and do tub to tub waterchanges (So I will have one tub ready with clean water and move them to that one, and then clean out the one they were in and set it up ready for them to go back in later)

I don't use an airpump or filter until they are about a month old and then I just use a sponge filter.

 

For the first day or two you wont need to feed them as they will still be absorbing their egg sac. After that you can feed them baby brine shrimp, decapsulated brine shrimp eggs (I found mine did really well on these),  Daphnia (Frozen when they are small as I find its smaller for them to eat, when they get a bit bigger you can use live if you want to), Hikari first bites (or any other commerical fry food). I also like to put some plants in there that have algae on them for them to nibble on

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1 hour ago, FishyMandy said:

If they are fertilized then in a couple of days you will be able to see the little eyes inside the eggs :) Otherwise they will turn white and get fuzzy.

 

I often see eggs without seeing any chasing, but also see them with chasing.

 

If they hatch, keep them in a shallow tub/tank. Daily waterchanges, when they are really small I like to use airline to drain and fill the tank so it doesn't disturb them too much. Or if I only have a couple I keep them in a small container and do tub to tub waterchanges (So I will have one tub ready with clean water and move them to that one, and then clean out the one they were in and set it up ready for them to go back in later)

I don't use an airpump or filter until they are about a month old and then I just use a sponge filter.

 

For the first day or two you wont need to feed them as they will still be absorbing their egg sac. After that you can feed them baby brine shrimp, decapsulated brine shrimp eggs (I found mine did really well on these),  Daphnia (Frozen when they are small as I find its smaller for them to eat, when they get a bit bigger you can use live if you want to), Hikari first bites (or any other commerical fry food). I also like to put some plants in there that have algae on them for them to nibble on

Thank you so much for helping me out and giving out important info! I will make sure to follow everything you've mentioned thank you!

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Why does the female goldfish chase the male around though? Isn't it supposed to be the opposite way? Or are they just playing?

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So, today I found some weird white stuff floating around my tank. They look like pieces of skin as they're very thin. I also found some tiny white dots on the tank glass (looks like eggs? decomposed eggs maybe?) and they move to the water circulation. Is this fungus? I saw my goldfish eating something off the glass and I didn't exactly what it was. Is this algae or fungus? Is it harmful?

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They are probably remains from eggs, I find my tank always looks a mess after they lay eggs. The tiny white dots are probably left over patches of 'egg glue' as I call it, the eggs form a sticky surface that hardens so they attach to things like rocks, plants and the glass. When the goldfish eat the eggs you often see little spots where they were

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2 minutes ago, FishyMandy said:

They are probably remains from eggs, I find my tank always looks a mess after they lay eggs. The tiny white dots are probably left over patches of 'egg glue' as I call it, the eggs form a sticky surface that hardens so they attach to things like rocks, plants and the glass. When the goldfish eat the eggs you often see little spots where they were

And man does the water get all milky looking too. 😱

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2 hours ago, FishyMandy said:

They are probably remains from eggs, I find my tank always looks a mess after they lay eggs. The tiny white dots are probably left over patches of 'egg glue' as I call it, the eggs form a sticky surface that hardens so they attach to things like rocks, plants and the glass. When the goldfish eat the eggs you often see little spots where they were

Ohh, that explains it! Thank you!

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2 hours ago, koko said:

And man does the water get all milky looking too. 😱

Definitely does! Got me a bit freaked out there and I did a 35% water change. :laugh: 

Are the orange eggs healthy ones?

It's been two days and I have three buckets that have eggs in them. One of the buckets had white fuzzy eggs so I threw them all out. The other two buckets seem to have orange eggs but no black dot. Should I throw these too or should I wait a bit longer?

Some of the orange eggs don't stick, does that mean they're unhealthy and I should throw them out too?

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In my experience orange ones aren't fertilized, but it wont hurt to keep them for a few more days and see what happens

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I seem to have another problem.. On Friday, my female goldfish laid eggs again and everything was okay. Normal stuff. Anyways, today the female goldfish seems to be having something tiny and red sticking out of it's vent. I tried picking it and putting a bit of pressuring on it's abdomen thinking maybe there were extra eggs in there but nope nothing to be found. They aren't worms but it's just a red ball looking thing on it's vent and it won't come out.. What should I do? She seems to be fine and eating well. Very interactive, swimming around, searching through the substrate but I fear that this may evolve into something bigger like maybe dropsy or something like....

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