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DandelionBlue

Jaffa is Lethargic, Not Eating and now Bottom Sitting

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We have been having trouble with our tank / filter for a while. I can't het it to cycle without harming the fish.

We devastatingly lost Blacky a week ago very suddenly.

And now Jaffa has been acting lethatgic for three days. Two days ago he spat out his food. Since then he hasn't eaten anything. And this morning he is bottom sitting and barely moving.

I thought it might be flukes and added salt and prazi when he started bottom sitting. I have been changing the water every two to three days to keep on top of the ammonia.

Test Results for the Following:

 Ammonia Level(Tank)

0.2.

I have changed the water this morning after testing.

 Nitrite Level(Tank)

0. But it does build up to 0.25 as I am cycling the tank

 Nitrate level(Tank)

my test kit doesn't give me this option

 Ammonia Level(Tap)

Will test after work

 Nitrite Level(Tap)

Will test after work

 Nitrate level(Tap)

My test kit doesn't give me the option

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

7

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Will test after work

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

Drops. NT Labs

 Water temperature?

Don't have a thermometer anymore 😣 Cold to the touch but not freezing.

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

44 gallon. 5 years. But we moved in April. So the tank and filter took a hit.

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

All Pondsolutions 1000EF. 1000L /h

 How often do you change the water and how much?

At the moment every 2 to 3 days. 90%

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

On Sunday. Changing it again this morning

 How many fish in the tank and their size?

One goldfish & a small pleco

 What kind of water additives or conditioners?

Tetra aquasafe

 What do you feed your fish and how often?

Hikari sinking pellets. Twice a day.

Cucumber

 Any new fish added to the tank?

No

 Any medications added to the tank?

Salt and prazi. But I just changed the water and only added back in prazi 

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

I haven't treated the tank for a long time. However since April I noticed signs of flukes. So have done a couple of praxi rounds with salt.

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

Jaffa has white fins so his veins show to a certain degree. But they seem a bit bloody.

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

He has been lethargic for a few days. Just hanging around in the mid section of the aquarium and swimming slowly. 

I noticed him yawning and flashing a couple if times. He also nipped to the surface twice. Then he spat out his food. So I assumed flukes.

This morning he was bottom sitting and barely moving. Being pushed around by the aerator.

 

I still have the following meds in my arsenal (but they are several years old)

Colloidal Silver, Triple Sulfa, Furan 2, E.M, Metronidazole, Kanaplex

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I left for work.

My husband told me that he just spat up loads of debris. 😪

He doesn't know what it is. And I was sure I had sucked up any debris when I changed the water this morning.

 

IMG-20191001-WA0003.jpg

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Can you take Jaffa and the other fish out of the tank and keep them in a hospital tank while you cycle the other all the way?

It’s older,  but based on the what I’m seeing I’d do the metronidazole for two weeks. You do definitely need a heater and a thermometer for treatment to warm the water.  The food could be increasing stress and it’s likely slowing down the cycling too.   But for the two weeks hospital treatment please use a separate bin and bump the temp up to 78F as a minimum, doing once daily water changes to control the ammonia and redosing the full amount of metro after every daily 100% water change.  Does this make sense? 
 

If Jaffa isn’t eating in 5 days or so we may need to change up some treatment parameters,  but the metro should help turn this around.

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Thank you for the reply!

I do have a small QT tank. But I haven't used it in a very long time. It's quite dirty. So I will need to sanitize it first.

I think I might still have a heater somewhere. Otherwise I will order one.

I assume I am to follow the instructions on the package for dosing with metradizanole.

Will my metradizonale still work or do I need to buy new stuff from america? I bought it something like 4 years ago. And right now without checking I don't know if I have any unopened tubes.

No salt?

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I would use the metro you have first while waiting on an order of new stuff.  It’s better than nothing at this point.

Definitely sterilize you’re hospital tank with a good salt scrub and some bleach and let air dry completely.  But no, we will not treat with salt.  Just metro. Dose it in the concentration on the package (one level scoop for ten gallons, usually), but because I’m going to have you do daily 100% water changes you’re going to add back in a new scoop after each water changes to keep the amount of metro in the water constant, does that make sense?

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Thank you Arctic Mama

So do I understand you right? Since I am changing 100% water everyday, I need to retreat the tank every day with 100% of the treatment?

I had a quick look on ebay for metronizadole and I can't find what I bought 4 years ago.

Here is what I could find on international ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metro-Zole-100g-99-9-Pure-Powder-Aquarium-Fish-Infection-Parasite-Medicine/143221911042?hash=item2158b0ee02:g:WWoAAOSwBh1cull9

Or on amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Interpet-Anti-Bacteria-Aquarium-Treatment/dp/B01FH2K2GM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=metronidazole+for+fish&qid=1569946963&sprefix=metronidazol+fo&sr=8-1

Or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-MELAFIX-Freshwater-Bacterial-Infection/dp/B0002567SW/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?keywords=metronidazole+for+fish&qid=1569946963&sprefix=metronidazol+fo&sr=8-4

 

I feel really anxious about moving him to the QT tank. I am worried it will massively stress him out. Or something will be bad in it 😣

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Also will I put the pleco into the same hospital tank as Jaffa?

The pleco seems to be doing fine and I am not sure if I should treat him with the metronidazole.

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Yes, daily water changes and daily redosing of the scoop of metro after the water is changed.  Honestly the quarantine tank won’t make things worse, so long as you raise the initial temperature gradually and match it when you do water changes.  If he passes it won’t be from treatment, but the long term stress of being exposed to the water quality issues with your filter - this is going to keep things a lot more stable for him.

In the meantime please put your pleco in for treatment as well, not because I’m thrilled about exposing him to the metro but because you really need them out of that main tank while you let it finish cycling.  And if at all possible buy a second heater or be willing to wait 3-4 weeks for it to cycle in the colder temperatures.  It will do it either way but the low temp makes it much slower. But by taking them out and just adding fish food and leaving the water in until the ammonia gets too high (I usually don’t let it get above 2 ppms is without a partial water change :) ) you’ll be letting the filter continue maturing with much less risk to them.

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Thank you

I will put both of them into the qt tank. The pleco normally sits underneath a log. It won't fit into the qt tank and probably shouldn't be added to it anyway.

The pleco won't suck Jaffa's slimecoat in the much smaller bare tank will he?

 

Do you have any recommendations on which medication I should buy? 

I have looked at my metronidazole tubes and they expired in 2017.

 

I think the heater I have is broken. It makes a rattling sound. I just ordered one. Hoping to get it tomorrow. I will get a second one for my big tank.

 

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Honestly any of the fish metro will work, no worries, just get whatever is easiest.  And if you’ve been storing the metro you have in a cool, dry place we should still be able to begin treatment with it, but I’d dose it at 2 scoops instead of just 1 - expiry means the efficacy has gone down a little, not that it is total junk. And I worry if you don’t start Jaffa now he might not make it until the new meds comes.

 

The pleco should leave him alone, but you can out a coffee mug in the tank on its side to give him a little cave to hide in and feel more secure? It won’t mess up anything with the treatment :)

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I shall pop a cup in the tank for the pleco then.

Do melafix and the intepret anti internal bacteria have metronidazole in them? They popped up when I searched for metronizadole but I can't find the ingredients. They would probably be the easiest and fastest for me to get

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I have set-up the QT tank and moved both fish into it.

The water is the same as in the main tank. And I will slowly increase the temperature.

I have found a thermometer.

My metrodizanole said 1-2 scoops for 10 gallons. I have calculated the QT tank as 15 gallons. So I have added 3 scoops. I hope that was right?

I am currently bleaching my bubbler and will add it to the QT tank. Is this correct?

Jaffa is bottom sitting in the QT tank.

Thank you again so much for trying to help.

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Three scoops should be fine, all sounds good 👌 

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Yes, rinse the air stone well and add it after the bleaching, and no, I wouldn’t try feeding until a day or so with meds has passed, given how much spitting you have seen.

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40 minutes ago, DandelionBlue said:

I shall pop a cup in the tank for the pleco then.

Do melafix and the intepret anti internal bacteria have metronidazole in them? They popped up when I searched for metronizadole but I can't find the ingredients. They would probably be the easiest and fastest for me to get

Melafix is garbage, toss it. I don’t believe Interpret has metro, I’m not sure.  You’d have to find an ingredients list.

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Thank you. I won't feed them for a couple of days.

Jaffa is currently swimming. I hope it lasts.

Although he needs to get used to the tank being considerably smaller. I have noticed he keeps nipping to the surface. I hope the bubbler will help him breath.

To be honest I am not sure the Interpret product contains metronidazole. I am going to do some more research. And otherwise order the seachem metrodizanole from ebay. It will just take a little longer to arrive

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Well that was short lived he is back to bottom sitting. And he is lying at a slight angle. I actually thought he was dead for a horrible minute

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I’m sorry, it’s tough when they’re so sick.  Again though, nothing you did or didn’t do with this treatment.  Sometimes the stress long term of tank conditions weakens them to the point where they can’t fight off whatever pathogen takes hold of them.  If he does pass, still keep your pleco in the hospital tank (no metro if he isn’t sick though :) ) while we sort out the cycle in your main tank, okay?

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