2 goldfish, different symptoms, same disease?

[Rylaan]

Hello, all-

I should've reached out earlier, but after seeing (yet another) symptom appear today I'm asking for some professional advice.

Tank set up (when symptoms first started appearing maybe 1 year ago):

- 20 gal with only 2 fancy goldfish females purchased from LFS (1 ryukin-owned for nearly 4 years, 1 oranda-owned for about 3 years). The body of each fish is 2-3 inches long. Bare bottom tank, moderately decorated with plastic decorations. Sits near a curtained window. LED light string, but only 50% of lights work. 1 HOB filter rated for 50 gal tank.

- Tank had been set up/filtered in current location for 1.5 years and 2.5 years in prior location.

- Performed 50% water changes every 7-9 days. After cleaning, I would immediately clean a 10 gal tank with 2 African Dwarf frogs, 2 nerite, and 1 mystery snail. (Used same equipment, water source, and water conditioner for the 10 gal tank. This one also set up/filtered in current location for 1.5 years. Animals in this tank appear to be unaffected by what's in the goldfish tank.)

- Infrequently tested water parameters, but always reported within normal range (ammonia 0 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate 20 to <5 ppm). Fed 2x/d with Hikari goldfish food, except on evenings when supplied with peas or some canned tuna (approx. 2x/week).

Symptoms:

- Tank had displayed a lot of brown algae; ryukin developed ulcer on back, looked to be scratching it by swimming along tank floor, but still active and eager to feed (she has habit of gulping air and floating on the surface...); oranda was lethargic and stayed on tank bottom, but still eager to feed. She developed both hazy-white regions and bloody streaks on tail fins where they came into contact with the tank bottom.

Action:

- Administered bacterial/fungal medication from Petco (can't remember brand...not API) until ran out. Seemed to help a little. Ryukin ulcer started to heal; oranda perked up a little.

- Over a few months symptoms did not improve. Ryukin developed what looks to be white tumors on/around dorsal spine; oranda still lethargic-no change. Went through 1 bottle of bacterial/fungal medication from API, then later another bottle of the 1st medication. (Total of 3 dosing phases.)

Current set up additions (made over 2 months ago):

- Tested water parameters (ammonia 0 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate <5 ppm after water change and got up to 10-20 range right before water change).

- Added 2nd HOB filter (rated for 10 gal tank). Added nerite snail.

- Ryukin developed a couple of black dots among the white tumors, skin healing?

Today:

- Ryukin developed blackish markings along gills, above caudal peduncle, and caudal tail (black smudge?). Still has white cellular growth with a few black dots on/around dorsal spine.

-Oranda still lethargic, caudal fins in tact (no fraying), speckled/hazy-white areas where fins come into contact with tank when she rests, no bloody streaks on fin edges.

 

Both fish are still eagerly eating. Any thoughts on what this could possibly be?

Thank you,

Rylaan

[FishyMandy]

Hi! So sorry for the late response, I see you have already answered quite a few of these questions but can I get you to fill this out? 

 

Test Results for the Following:

 Ammonia Level(Tank)

 Nitrite Level(Tank)

 Nitrate level(Tank)

 Ammonia Level(Tap)

 Nitrite Level(Tap)

 Nitrate level(Tap)

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

 Water temperature?

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

 How often do you change the water and how much?

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

 How many fish in the tank and their size?

 What kind of water additives or conditioners?

 What do you feed your fish and how often?

 Any new fish added to the tank?

 Any medications added to the tank?

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Any photos or video will really help us too

[Rylaan]

Ammonia Level(Tank)- 0

 Nitrite Level(Tank) - 0

 Nitrate level(Tank)-  10-20 ppm right before water change

 Ammonia Level(Tap)- 0

 Nitrite Level(Tap)- 0

 Nitrate level(Tap)- <5 ppm

 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) -n/a

 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)- n/a

Other Required Info:

 Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?- API freshwater, drops

 Water temperature?- Varies from ~72-80. Currently 80F

 Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?- 20 gal, >2.5 years

 What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?- one is Tetra brand 10 gal, other is Aqua Clear 50 gal

 How often do you change the water and how much?- weekly, 50%

 How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?- 7 days, 50%

 How many fish in the tank and their size?- 2, 2-3 in body

 What kind of water additives or conditioners?- Prime water conditioner (bottle is 4 years old, but I don't see expiration date on it)

 What do you feed your fish and how often?- 2x/day

 Any new fish added to the tank?- no

 Any medications added to the tank?- none this month

 List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.- can't remember name but for bacteria/fungal infections and administered whole bottle over 2-3 weeks or so; API Metafix I think administered whole bottle over 4 weeks maybe; then again medication I can't remember name but for bacteria/fungal infections and administered whole bottle over 2-3 weeks or so

 Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?- yes, cell discoloration/growth and "smudge" on one with small cloudy white patches on tail fin of other (see description in original post)

 Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?- staying at the bottom, lethargic

[koko]

The fist fish looks like the water is bothering him. The other fish looks to have a tumor.

When you can, take a full tank shot for me

[Rylaan]

Ryukin died yesterday.  

Tank lid is lifted because I don't have A/C and it's getting warm inside the house.

[Arctic Mama]

I’m so sorry he died!  Unfortunately the tumor doesn’t have much for it, but keeping the water conditions solid should give him he best chance for the rest of his days.  When he stops eating or drifts in the current it is probably time to euthanize, though.

I don’t believe the two causes are related at all.  The fish who passed away looked to be bothered by something more like an infection than anything else, and the remaining fish really does look to have a tumor.  If there are any open lesions I highly recommend running 1 teaspoon per gallon of aquarium or rock salt (NO ADDITIVES, including iodine or yellow prussiate), or dosing with methylene blue.  Either course will inhibit topical infections and fungus, and the meth blue could help the fish respirate more comfortably in the heat.

[koko]

My I highly suggest getting that hollow log out of there. Those are notorious for having stagnate water in them. Since the fish that is still alive is slightly bent, I would tank everything out that is like that. Then I would do a 80% water change.

 

What is the ph in tank and tap?

[Rylaan]

To clarify the oranda is the lone survivor and she's still eating, but is otherwise lethargic and hangs out at the bottom of the tank. She is bent, like Koko mentioned, with her nose and tail fins resting on the tank bottom (sometimes has trouble keeping her balance). She's been acting like this for months and the medication I've given has done little to help. She has short bursts of energy (like at feeding time).

Tank was cleaned a couple days ago (50%) and pH looks like 7.6 with tap maybe 7.2-7.4

[koko]

12 hours ago, Rylaan said:

To clarify the oranda is the lone survivor and she's still eating, but is otherwise lethargic and hangs out at the bottom of the tank. She is bent, like Koko mentioned, with her nose and tail fins resting on the tank bottom (sometimes has trouble keeping her balance). She's been acting like this for months and the medication I've given has done little to help. She has short bursts of energy (like at feeding time).

Tank was cleaned a couple days ago (50%) and pH looks like 7.6 with tap maybe 7.2-7.4

Okay, like I said before, the best thing to do right now is take all hollow ornaments out of the tank. It looks like a bacterial problem. So let's start off getting the tank clean. 

Cause no later how much meds you use if you don't find out what is causing it the bacterial problem they won't help.

[koko]

Then I would look for general quick cure for later.

[Arctic Mama]

Wait, the orange one is the survivor?  Oh yikes, get that guy into quarantine with no substrate or decoration.  Can we get some closeup pictures of him and a video of his swimming behavior?

[Rylaan]

Emptied out the tank on Tuesday and did another 50% water change. No change in behavior. Tried to get some close ups; video clips are too large to send/attach here. The hollow log was a more recent addition. Still baffled by what happened...

Thoughts on what to do now?

[koko]

Okay how is the fish eating? still interested in food?

Do you have Aquaruim salt, General Quick Cure?, Prazi, Metro? 

[Rylaan]

Fish is still very excited to eat food. I don't have any medication on hand, but I can get some. Which would be the best to try?

[koko]

2 hours ago, Rylaan said:

Fish is still very excited to eat food. I don't have any medication on hand, but I can get some. Which would be the best to try?

Have you ever Prazi the fish before?

If not let's get General quick cure on hand also try and find some duckweed, best food for goldfish. 

If @Arctic Mama has any thoughts too please let's us know 😁

[Arctic Mama]

General cure and Kanamycin together should hit anything that isn’t viral pretty hard.  I’d run a two week course of both of those with the temp gradually bumped up to 82-84 degrees in a quarantine tank, if he can take it that warm.  Since the house is already warm I’m comfortable going a little higher on that than I would, otherwise

[Loliman]

Hey 

I would go for a general aid cure since you exactly doesn’t know the reason behind it also do put some aquarium salt, methylene blue and bumb the temp up a bit (not too much as it might cause further stress and also since your room is pretty warm), also do move him to a quarantine if u haven’t already.also it’s a relief to see that he still has a appetite

 

btw, how long does the fish have this disease???? 

[Rylaan]

Are parasites a concern here? I understand that nothing is 100% parasite free, but would parasites incapacitate a fish years after leaving the LFS?

Do you dose both General Cure and Kanamycin at the same time or stagger administration? And how long would you keep the temperature elevated?

Thank you for the feedback!

[koko]

@Arctic Mama she can help better with meds. Hold on😁

[koko]

On 8/3/2019 at 10:15 PM, Rylaan said:

Are parasites a concern here? I understand that nothing is 100% parasite free, but would parasites incapacitate a fish years after leaving the LFS?

If you added anything new to the tank since that fish was placed in there or new fish and even if you have never treated a fish, yes they can still harbor them. 

On 8/3/2019 at 10:15 PM, Rylaan said:

Do you dose both General Cure and Kanamycin at the same time or stagger administration? And how long would you keep the temperature elevated?

Thank you for the feedback!

Like I said @Arctic Mama is better at this, but I do know you can do both. Im trying to get her attention again:)

 

[koko]

Quote

General cure and Kanamycin together should hit anything that isn’t viral pretty hard.  I’d run a two week course of both of those with the temp gradually bumped up to 82-84 degrees in a quarantine tank, if he can take it that warm.  Since the house is already warm I’m comfortable going a little higher on that than I would, otherwise

there we go she said it one above me