Not exactly new but still having problems-Tb?

[Cognac82 5]

I asked for help here before and you guys came to the rescue so I'm back again. Sorry, but this is really long!

Stats: 75 gal with sump/wet dry trickle filter with floss and bioballs and an additional whisper advanced 30-60 hang on back filter and a bubble wand. 50-100% water change done weekly. No carbon. 

pH 8.2, temp 71-72 (no heater), gh 12, kh 8, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10 from the tap (well water) and usually 20-40 before next water change. Two T8 lights, vals, anubias, anacharis, duckweed, hornwort, gravel substrate, slate and one piece of driftwood. Feeding API sinking pellets (formerly new life spectrum but Amazon doesn't have it any more), bug bites goldfish formula, algae wafers and cooked veggies and rarely a few blood worms. 

2 original fish (orandas). Bought new fish, got home 45 minutes later and my quarantine filter was dead. Made a (bad) decision to add them to the main tank because I had no other filters (other fish in my quarantine tanks already). Should have just done a water change every day and used prime. 

One fish was bullying. Removed and put in the unfiltered tank. Still doing well with just water changes. 

Next day, ich spots on one of my original fish. Removed hob filter from main tank and put all fish in a large tote and treated for six days with Malachite green and extra stress coat. Ran a heater in the empty main tank but couldn't get it above 82F. 6 days later put the four back in the 75 after vacuuming for an hour and 100% water change. My original red and white is now bottom sitting and both he and my orange and white are now thin. Those two also have fin rot but no more ich. One of the new fish now has a large wound that is affecting the scales and is protruding. One fish is completely fine. Bought more salt and I plan to remove plants and salt the tank tonight and do triple sulfa if it doesn't heal. 

I had the two original fish left because despite my best efforts (6 week quarantine each time, 2 doses of prazipro) each fish I added to this tank died a mysterious death (or euthanized) after being seemingly fine. Wasting, dropsy, ulcers,one with pop eye and masses, and bottom sitting amongst other issues over about a year's time in four different fish- one at a time. Each one just lingered for a long time. So sad😭

I am now concerned that this tank may have tuberculosis. Has anyone here dealt with tuberculosis? Obviously I am concerned about the possibility of contracting something or having to bleach my tank and start over. I love these fish so much. It breaks my heart. I have multiple tanks (5 others, from tropicals to just shrimp) and no problems besides death from old age. Am I missing something here? Any help is appreciated. I just want to have goldfish!!!!!

 

 

[koko 14,335]

When you can please give us some photos. 

I am truly sorry no one has answered you  

[Cognac82 5]

Koko,

Thank you for your email.

Update: so I tried salt treatment for the fish gang and got up to 0.3% concentration over 3 days and about 5 days into the treatment the fish were showing signs of osmotic stress (floating erratically and tipping over). I did several water changes to get the salt concentration back down and all but one fish was looking better, almost back to normal (moved that fish into a hospital tank). Unfortunately, that fish succumbed to its ulcer. I tried a course of triple sulfa with daily methylene blue dips and then a course of metronidazole. Ulcer showed some signs of improvement and then one night she didn't eat, and was gone the next morning. 😭

Fin rot in the other fish from the ich was healing but there was still a lot of flashing and fin flicking. Used a combination of melafix, pimafix, and ich attack together for one week. Further improvement but not totally resolved. Was dosing prazi pro at each water change (draining the tank down to where the fish almost scoot). Even better still but still occasionally piping at the surface and floating aimlessly. Poop a little off still. Dosed metronidazole at 250mg/25 grams of food mixed with crushed garlic juice for a week in the remaining fish. 

I have to say I think they're finally better! How do I know? Not only have they regained their weight and their scales and fins have healed, they are spawning every day and I had two of the fry survive just being in the tank! I now know that I have two males and two females by their spawning. I will probably have to re-home the little ones to a friend as my tank is too full for two more, but I am at least glad they're finally better. Attached are the best pictures I could get of the guys zooming around.

Thanks!

[koko 14,335]

I have to say GREAT JOB! I think you did it too. I have learned that happy goldfish will spawn  

[Arctic Mama 3,625]

I didn’t realize we had missed this - my apologies!

 

And what tank craziness.  I’ve have something similar happen and it seemed to be a virus that got hold after a filter fluctuation.  No treatment worked and they all seemed to suffer symptoms like lethargy, frayed fins, and ulcers before dying.  Siiiigh.

 

I’m so glad your survivors seem to be in good health again, which spawning would definitely indicate!

[Cognac82 5]

Thank you! I learned a lot from people like you guys and the forum followers regarding medication. I'm just sorry I lost the ones I had before. I've come to believe that at least in my area it is difficult to find goldfish that don't come with some level of disease or parasites. The last bunch should have been better, as they came from private koi farmers that breed and show their own fish.

Hopefully the crew I have now will live long and happy lives and I won't have to worry about finding healthy fish again for a long time. My two little fry I saved are growing like crazy. Can't wait to see what they end up looking like! In the meantime, I adopted some fish from a client of the place I work and I am now trying to get them into a suitable tank.

There were 5 fancy goldfish, two black tetras, three bronze corys AND a common pleco living in the same 20 gallon tank with only a hang on back filter pad and three inches of gravel (that wasn't vacuumed for over a decade) as a source of filtration. The heater was set on 81 degrees! These poor fish are horribly stunted. I'm looking into getting a tank big enough for all 11 of them to live together.

As for now the goldfish are all in a huge storage container with their own hang on back filter and every other day water changes. The clean water was a horrible shock to them and even with slow acclimation they suffered some buoyancy issues from the nitrate drop. They're doing well now and my other guys are all still spawning like crazy every day. 

I would love to have a 200 gallon tank for all of them to swim around together 😁.

Thanks again for the help!

[koko 14,335]

I think in general it's getting hard to find pest free goldfish😯. That's is great that you have saved them. It's crazy that people think that goldfish can live like that. 😣

[Cognac82 5]

4 hours ago, koko said:

I think in general it's getting hard to find pest free goldfish😯. That's is great that you have saved them. It's crazy that people think that goldfish can live like that. 😣

I was very nauseated trying to clean that tank. I removed an entire plastic colander of gemstones, marbles and sea glass and then another full three gallon bucket worth of gravel after that. It was so gross I had to stop several times to keep my stomach contents in place, and I am a vet tech and a mom, so I've cleaned my share of grossness. 

As disgusting as it was, I know the only thing keeping the ammonia in that tank from killing the fish was the bacteria on those rocks. Even so, those goldfish went through hell because they have curled gill plates from the ammonia burns over the years.

[Arctic Mama 3,625]

It’s tough to see them neglected because of bad care advice.  But because they’re inexpensive and don’t bark or meow when they’re in pain it can be tough for a novice or someone who just doesn’t care enough to do the research to realize they’re mistreating their animals.  

Tons of gravel and under gravel filters with ten inches of fish in a ten gallon tank WAS the advice for decades.  People not considering that an inch of goldfish or catfish isn’t equivalent, in mess or body mass, to an inch of tetra.

When you know better you do better, right?  Care practices keep evolving and improving and the best we can do is spread the work and, as you did, step in and offer better care when the chance arises 👍

[koko 14,335]

1 hour ago, Cognac82 said:

I was very nauseated trying to clean that tank. I removed an entire plastic colander of gemstones, marbles and sea glass and then another full three gallon bucket worth of gravel after that. It was so gross I had to stop several times to keep my stomach contents in place, and I am a vet tech and a mom, so I've cleaned my share of grossness. 

As disgusting as it was, I know the only thing keeping the ammonia in that tank from killing the fish was the bacteria on those rocks. Even so, those goldfish went through hell because they have curled gill plates from the ammonia burns over the years.

That must have been very bad.... I had a guppy tank once that got a bad smell to it cause we had to much gravel in there. I cant imagine just how gross that was.

Well the best part is the fish got a new lease on life  

[Cognac82 5]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

It’s tough to see them neglected because of bad care advice.  But because they’re inexpensive and don’t bark or meow when they’re in pain it can be tough for a novice or someone who just doesn’t care enough to do the research to realize they’re mistreating their animals.  

Tons of gravel and under gravel filters with ten inches of fish in a ten gallon tank WAS the advice for decades.  People not considering that an inch of goldfish or catfish isn’t equivalent, in mess or body mass, to an inch of tetra.

When you know better you do better, right?  Care practices keep evolving and improving and the best we can do is spread the work and, as you did, step in and offer better care when the chance arises 👍

The worst part is that the under gravel filter was long ago abandoned and disconnected and the hang on back filter has no biological media. This owner passed away or otherwise these fish would have still been in that tank. The people who were helping clean everything out said she had five tanks at one time. 😲 I have 8, but I can't imagine any of them ending up in that shape. It was really sad. I think she must not have known better or she would have done something differently. She had ample financial means to care for them. 

[Arctic Mama 3,625]

Yeah, I’m assuming she didn’t know any better or was too far gone to realize the care went from okay to major neglect.  Yikes!