Bloated fish belly and prazi treatment question

[avocadro 0]

Hi again, after my recent post here about my fish (who sadly passed away  ) I've been looking a lot closer at my remaining fish.

I noticed a few things that might be wrong with 2 other fish.

First one is this girl? that as you can see appears to have a bloated belly. It's only really noticeable when looking top down like in the photo. I gave her a couple peas 2 days in a row with grains of epsom salt in them as suggested in other topics on this forum but no improvement shown yet. Is an epsom salt bath in order?

Second is this guy, who appears to have a few dark spots on his head. They're darker than what's shown in the photo. Also there's that red spot.

•  Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
•  Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
•  Nitrate level(Tank) 10-20
•  Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
•  Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
•  Nitrate level(Tap) 0-10
•  Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.8
•  Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.8
•  Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops 
•  Water temperature? 15C/59F
•  Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 500 gallons
•  What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 4 gallon bucket filter, some terrestrial and aquatic plants
•  How often do you change the water and how much? I am planning to do 30% once a month or so, the plants seem keep the nitrate at bay.
•  How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 30% a few weeks ago
•  How many fish in the tank and their size? 5, 4-5 inches long not including tail
•  What kind of water additives or conditioners? Seachem safe
•  What do you feed your fish and how often? NLS twice daily and biweekly veggies
•  Any new fish added to the tank? No
•  Any medications added to the tank? No
•  List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Never medicated.
•  Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Nothing other than what I listed.
•  Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Nope, both fish eating well.

Also the fish have never been treated for flukes. Unfortunately no website aside from yours seemed to make it clear that most goldfish have them. So I wanted to ask the following. I can't get prazi but JBL gyrodol is easily available. The problem is the bottles only cover 500 liters and are quite expensive. I can however grab 2 100 liter plastic holding tanks and later reuse them for a bog filter. Should I use those and leave the pond untreated? Thanks a lot.

[shakaho 6,313]

Yes, goldfish normally have flukes, but the immune system system of healthy goldfish keeps the fluke population under control.  We know that healthy fish that have lived together in a tank or pond long term  share the same strain of flukes and have an immunity to those flukes.  They do not, however, have immunity to the flukes of healthy goldfish from another pond.  Thus we recommend treating new fish with prazi during quarantine.

Your fish look healthy to me.  The symptoms of flukes include "itchiness" -- the fish rub against things.  The fish might develop little pustules at sites of fluke attachment.

I can't find the active ingredients of JBL gyrodol, so I can't recommend it.

Incidentally, none of my goldfish have been treated for flukes nor have they ever shown fluke symptoms.

 

[avocadro 0]

13 minutes ago, shakaho said:

Yes, goldfish normally have flukes, but the immune system system of healthy goldfish keeps the fluke population under control.  We know that healthy fish that have lived together in a tank or pond long term  share the same strain of flukes and have an immunity to those flukes.  They do not, however, have immunity to the flukes of healthy goldfish from another pond.  Thus we recommend treating new fish with prazi during quarantine.

Your fish look healthy to me.  The symptoms of flukes include "itchiness" -- the fish rub against things.  The fish might develop little pustules at sites of fluke attachment.

I can't find the active ingredients of JBL gyrodol, so I can't recommend it.

Incidentally, none of my goldfish have been treated for flukes nor have they ever shown fluke symptoms.

 

That makes a lot of sense, thank you! 

Gyrodol is said to contain praziquantel, but I might not need it after all and instead order some powdered prazi to have on hand.

Also I'm a bit concerned about the first fishes belly, should I keep feeding pellets as usual?

[mjfromga 1,785]

None of my current fish have been treated for flukes either and none show fluke symptoms. I don't treat goldfish for flukes in quarantine unless I see a reason to. I used to, but I don't anymore. I agree with Shakaho on the appearance of the fish. Looks fine to me. 

This is my sweet girl Shrimp. She's fat and has been ever since she was little. You can see her way to the left in the top photo. She's over a year old and she's shown no signs of being unhealthy or having any issues. My male Comet is also more chubby than both of your fish.

Healthy and well fed Comets should be rounded in the middle and girls will often be more chubby than the boys. 

[avocadro 0]

Guys... I caught a glimpse of the orange and white fishes underside today. It did not look good to say the least. See has a hole/wound in between her pelvic fins... right where they attach to the body. With poop and what might be a worm coming out of it.

I put her in a clear container for a closer look (didn't seem to stress her very much). Warning, these pics are a bit shocking (to me at least). Link here.

I think it's safe to say this has been going on for a while, a few weeks at least. The fish is eating well and doesn't seem to be rubbing against anything, but is slightly less active then the others.

Please help my poor thing

Edited December 25, 2018 by avocadro

[FishyMandy 6,299]

Hi, sorry for the slow reply,

Do you still have the fish separate? Has the 'poop' fully come out? If so can you show a picture of what the wound looks like now?
Is there anything in the pond that could have 'stabbed' the fish to cause an injury?

If the 'poop' is still there can you tell us if it is hard or soft?

[avocadro 0]

1 hour ago, FishyMandy said:

Hi, sorry for the slow reply,

Do you still have the fish separate? Has the 'poop' fully come out? If so can you show a picture of what the wound looks like now?
Is there anything in the pond that could have 'stabbed' the fish to cause an injury?

If the 'poop' is still there can you tell us if it is hard or soft?

No the fish was never separated.

The poop has come out since yesterday, I think it was harder than the consistency you'd expect coming out of the other end of a fish.

I don't know what could have stabbed her like that. Could something she ate have done that? We have stray cats but I doubt it was possible for a cat claw to just pierce throw the fish like that and leave no other marks, especially the abdomen.

Here is a picture (sorry for the quality)  

 

[FishyMandy 6,299]

The discoloration  around the site worries me. How is she acting? Do you think it was definitely poop that came out of her? Because I find that very worrisome if it was. Are the other fish remaining free of any kind of wounds?

I think, what I would do, is isolate her in a quarantine and do a course of metronidazole and tri sulfa.  And also keep a watch to see if she is pooping normally. Do you know if those meds are available there?

[mjfromga 1,785]

That isn't poop. It isn't even near her vent where poop comes out. It looks like some sort of parasite or something. It's so hard to tell. Really need a better photo. 

[avocadro 0]

48 minutes ago, FishyMandy said:

The discoloration  around the site worries me. How is she acting? Do you think it was definitely poop that came out of her? Because I find that very worrisome if it was. Are the other fish remaining free of any kind of wounds?

I think, what I would do, is isolate her in a quarantine and do a course of metronidazole and tri sulfa.  And also keep a watch to see if she is pooping normally. Do you know if those meds are available there?

She's eating well, sometimes swimming actively with the other fish and sometimes just staying still. Not rubbing against anything. The other fish are doing great.

No I'm not sure if it was poop or not. I will keep an eye on her pooping normally as you said.

I can get metro but probably not tri sulfa, I'll call some places tomorrow. Should I relocate her now? I've got a 25G container that I can place inside the house with a sponge filter.

1 hour ago, mjfromga said:

That isn't poop. It isn't even near her vent where poop comes out. It looks like some sort of parasite or something. It's so hard to tell. Really need a better photo. 

Photographing a fish is much harder than I expected. I will try my best tomorrow!

[mjfromga 1,785]

I believe what you saw may have been a small stick or something now that I look. A piercing injury basically. It wasn't poop. I believe what is left is a bruise of some sort from trauma. I think the fish just probably needs to heal on its own. I don't think metro would hurt, I just don't think it will help.