Help! Holes in my goldfish tail, possible finrot? Prolonged issue🙁

[GGal90]

Hi everyone,
I have had my goldie for about a year and shes been the strongest fish ever. However probably 3 weeks back I noticed 3-4 small symmetric holes in her back fin, attaching pics. I treated the entire tank with the below three items 
1.Furan-2 : Tried the course but no change and cud see the tail was torn now and could no longer see the holes
2.Melafix : for 7days straight and on 8th day changed almost 50% water. After one dosage she didn't get better
3. Melafix+Pimafix : I shifted her to a smaller quarantine tub but she seemed extremely lethargic and not moving so I shifted her back to main tank. Started the treatment yesterday.

Am looking for any suggestions. Melafix had cured finrot previously. And need to note that fish is extremely active and I feed them sinking pellets once a day.

Tank parameters

Tank size -63gallons running for a year
Fish count 4 -2redcap oranda 1fantail large n small
Substrate- Barebottom , was gravel removed when finrot seen; No decorations 
Ammonia 0-0.25 
Nitrite 0 
Nitrate 0 
PH 7.6 
High Range PH 7.4 
Kit Used: API liquid test KIT
Water changes: Weekly 50%

[GGal90]

Adding latest video of her to see tail condition. Very difficult to Get a still pic to see her tail fin so uploading video. Please suggest guys🙁

2DAD5A7E-5AC6-4F22-AD88-7F7DC9716D6D.MOV

[koko]

If you could please fill this out for me

Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems: 

Test Results for the Following: * Ammonia Level(Tank) * Nitrite Level(Tank) * Nitrate level(Tank) * Ammonia Level(Tap) * Nitrite Level(Tap) * Nitrate level(Tap) * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Other Required Info: * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? * Water temperature? * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? * How often do you change the water and how much?

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? * How many fish in the tank and their size? * What kind of water additives or conditioners? * What do you feed your fish and how often? * Any new fish added to the tank? * Any medications added to the tank? * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

[GGal90]

Test Results for the Following: 0.25 Ammonia Level(Tank)  *0Nitrite Level(Tank) 0 Nitrate level(Tank) 0 Ammonia Level(Tap) 0 Nitrite Level(Tap) 0 Nitrate level(Tap) 7.6 Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  7.6 Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Other Required Info: API testmaster kit Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? * Water temperature? *63 gallons running for a yearTank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 250gallonWhat is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Weekly water chanhe 76% How often do you change the water and how much?

5 fays ago 80% How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 4 fish images given  How many fish in the tank and their size? Seachem prime What kind of water additives or conditioners? *hikari sinking pellets once a day What do you feed your fish and how often? Yes 2 red cap oranda but after seeing holes in fish tail after furan 2 treatment Any new fish added to the tank? Melafix pimafix furan 2 Any medications added to the tank? Stated in first post please check List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Holes in tail Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or

[GGal90]

I actually have an update!! I just noticed today water is cloudy and i had removed the sponges from over head filters. So i placed them back in today and saw lots of white pale flecks fall into water. Also noticed white fungus pike material on the back side or air pump. Icould find a simiar video link , it looks exactly same. Is it fungus? I am already using Pimafix but still why the bloom??

 

pls help!!

 

 

[koko]

Can you give me a photo shot or video of the tank?

Your tank is little bit to small for these guys...... You should read this great post of Our Goldfish Guidelines.

 

When was the last time you dumped out the water in your filters? and or cleaned the media? 

[Helen]

what you're flicking off your suckers is biofilm. normal. biofilm is natural to any water source (biofilm even settles on our teeth and we brush it off twice a day!) and can simply be wiped off during every waterchange/tank maintenance routine you have going each week. i am confident that this is not the cause of the problems.

moving along. you have added 2 new fish and now there is a fin issue. it does not look like rot to me. rot usually has white corroded edges. this looks like it's parasites and most likely flukes. you will need to treat the whole tank with Praziquantel and salt.

given the amount of fin that is affected, i would also recommend salt dips before starting prazi treatment. this will strip away the slime coat off your fish so that the Prazi has a better chance of working as quickly as possible. good luck!

[GGal90]

54 minutes ago, Helen said:

what you're flicking off your suckers is biofilm. normal. biofilm is natural to any water source (biofilm even settles on our teeth and we brush it off twice a day!) and can simply be wiped off during every waterchange/tank maintenance routine you have going each week. i am confident that this is not the cause of the problems.

moving along. you have added 2 new fish and now there is a fin issue. it does not look like rot to me. rot usually has white corroded edges. this looks like it's parasites and most likely flukes. you will need to treat the whole tank with Praziquantel and salt.

given the amount of fin that is affected, i would also recommend salt dips before starting prazi treatment. this will strip away the slime coat off your fish so that the Prazi has a better chance of working as quickly as possible. good luck!

Unfortunately I can't seem to get Prazipro in my area. Tried amazon but not available and not in pet stores also. Is there any better alternative? seachem paraguard?

[GGal90]

16 hours ago, koko said:

Can you give me a photo shot or video of the tank?

Your tank is little bit to small for these guys...... You should read this great post of Our Goldfish Guidelines.

 

When was the last time you dumped out the water in your filters? and or cleaned the media? 

Hi koko, yea I actually wash off the sponges in the filter area and scrub it with a tooth brush every week. But probably 1 thing i didnt clean is the aur suction tubes inside the water. I was only cleaning the overhead areas .

 

I am actually cleaning everything right now. Shall I empty the tank and let it dry? Heard its good to kill unwanted algae etc. What do you suggest?

[koko]

55 minutes ago, GGal90 said:

Hi koko, yea I actually wash off the sponges in the filter area and scrub it with a tooth brush every week. But probably 1 thing i didnt clean is the aur suction tubes inside the water. I was only cleaning the overhead areas .

 

I am actually cleaning everything right now. Shall I empty the tank and let it dry? Heard its good to kill unwanted algae etc. What do you suggest?

you don't need to clean the air lines. Like Helen said its just bio film on the lines.   When I mean is just dump the water out of the Filters. Every time you change your water since it builds up in the bottom of the filter.  

I would not clean clean the tank if you do that you could loose your cycle. You don't clean all your filter media in all your filters on the same day do you? If you do you can cause a slight Cycle bump again. When I do a water change, I dump the water out of my filters and only clean one filters Media every time. This way the other filter has all the BB's in it to keep the cycle stable  

Im not bothered by algae, in fact mine will try and nibble at it during the day  ITs good for them to eat. Just like they would do in a pond.  

57 minutes ago, GGal90 said:

Unfortunately I can't seem to get Prazipro in my area. Tried amazon but not available and not in pet stores also. Is there any better alternative? seachem paraguard?

I did read up on Paraguard and it says it will kill Flukes. I my self haven't used it since I can get Prazi. Can you see if you can get something like General Cure? 

[GGal90]

20 minutes ago, koko said:

you don't need to clean the air lines. Like Helen said its just bio film on the lines.   When I mean is just dump the water out of the Filters. Every time you change your water since it builds up in the bottom of the filter.  

I would not clean clean the tank if you do that you could loose your cycle. You don't clean all your filter media in all your filters on the same day do you? If you do you can cause a slight Cycle bump again. When I do a water change, I dump the water out of my filters and only clean one filters Media every time. This way the other filter has all the BB's in it to keep the cycle stable  

Im not bothered by algae, in fact mine will try and nibble at it during the day  ITs good for them to eat. Just like they would do in a pond.  

I did read up on Paraguard and it says it will kill Flukes. I my self haven't used it since I can get Prazi. Can you see if you can get something like General Cure? 

Thanks for that info! I checked and seems I can get API gen cure 10packets online. It may take a week to reach but till then am hoping I can stop any treatments as I seriously suspect something is wrong with either the melafix or pimafix i have. I just cleaned the. Filter area last week and now it was full of "biofilm"? Not sure as I have never seen this before. Attaching the maybe gross images, This much film cant appear in a week right?! I found it mainly in the overhead filter area.

 

Il probably add some stability later on.

Also attaching pics of the tank as you had asked earlier, I always thought the count was 20 for first fish then 10 plus each additional fancy gold.🤭 

2C9567E8-0E28-4297-B9A0-E8CF4CE34049.MOV

[koko]

Great

That is a lot of bio film on there. 

Where does the filters water dump into. I see you have a powerhead, but no sponge filter on it. If you can I would like to see your filter set up as Im little confused on how its working.

Does the water smell at all?

[GGal90]

22 minutes ago, koko said:

Great

That is a lot of bio film on there. 

Where does the filters water dump into. I see you have a powerhead, but no sponge filter on it. If you can I would like to see your filter set up as Im little confused on how its working.

Does the water smell at all?

😁I know!! Ok so I may have like misused terms like  sponge filter pump etc etc! Probably why you got confused. Attaching the over head area and the water goes right back into the tank actually. And nope the water doesn't smell at all. Might be due to melafix!

Edited November 16, 2018 by GGal90

[koko]

Oh now that is cool. Okay now I understand

The suggestion I have for you then is to get that power head off the glass, so it doesn't collect the bio film. You can do this by putting a sponge filter on the end of it. This will give your cycle more BB's too in the long run.

 

[GGal90]

13 minutes ago, koko said:

Oh now that is cool. Okay now I understand

The suggestion I have for you then is to get that power head off the glass, so it doesn't collect the bio film. You can do this by putting a sponge filter on the end of it. This will give your cycle more BB's too in the long run.

 

Thanks a bunch koko!! I was kind of freaking out coz i didnt want to lose my goldie i had for a year almost! Lots of great info I have ordered Gen Cure, will wait and let you know updates

[Helen]

copied from an online goldfish forum archive in India.. praziquantel is available in India.. we have also had other forum members who are based in India and were able to find it.

"You  can  get  Prazi  from  Blue  Print  Medicine  Shop,  Lindsey  Street,  Kolkata.  Its  brand  name  is  DISTOCIDE  and  cost  of  one  strip  (contains  4pcs  600mg  tablets)  is   Rs  170  (approx). "

" Hi, 
  
 I  have  got  some  Praziquantel  600  mg  tablets  (no  other  constituents)  from  the  'Cash  Pharmacy'  in  Bangalore.   
 It  comes  under  the  name  of  'Distoside'.  There  are  2  other  manufacturers  of  pure  praziquantel  as  well  in  India  (do  not  remember  the  names). 
 You  can  ask  the  pharmacist  to  check  in  their  durg  books  for  this  drug  (Praziquantel)  and  they  can  identify  the  local  company  that  makes  it. 
  
 For  8  tabs  of  600  mg  each,  it  cost  me  Rs.  165/- "

"For  all  Veterinary  drugs  in  Bangalore  THE  place  to  look  for  is 
  
 Nathan's  Vet  Pharmacy  near  Russel  market. 
  
 Enter  the  area  from  Shivajinagar  bus  stand,  turn  left  at  the  church,  take  the  next  right  turn  in  front  of  beef  market  and  continue  straight.  You'll  see  Hotel  Taj  on  the  right,  continue  up  the  road  leading  at  10  o'clock  direction.  Nathan's  pharmacy  is  on  the  left. 
  
 One  is  for  humans,  the  adjacent  one  is  for  animals."

the archive is as old as 2007, but the brand name is a good start to finding the product. hopefully you  can find some praziquantel so that you can treat your fish  good luck!

[koko]

2 hours ago, Helen said:

copied from an online goldfish forum archive in India.. praziquantel is available in India.. we have also had other forum members who are based in India and were able to find it.

"You  can  get  Prazi  from  Blue  Print  Medicine  Shop,  Lindsey  Street,  Kolkata.  Its  brand  name  is  DISTOCIDE  and  cost  of  one  strip  (contains  4pcs  600mg  tablets)  is   Rs  170  (approx). "

" Hi, 
  
 I  have  got  some  Praziquantel  600  mg  tablets  (no  other  constituents)  from  the  'Cash  Pharmacy'  in  Bangalore.   
 It  comes  under  the  name  of  'Distoside'.  There  are  2  other  manufacturers  of  pure  praziquantel  as  well  in  India  (do  not  remember  the  names). 
 You  can  ask  the  pharmacist  to  check  in  their  durg  books  for  this  drug  (Praziquantel)  and  they  can  identify  the  local  company  that  makes  it. 
  
 For  8  tabs  of  600  mg  each,  it  cost  me  Rs.  165/- "

"For  all  Veterinary  drugs  in  Bangalore  THE  place  to  look  for  is 
  
 Nathan's  Vet  Pharmacy  near  Russel  market. 
  
 Enter  the  area  from  Shivajinagar  bus  stand,  turn  left  at  the  church,  take  the  next  right  turn  in  front  of  beef  market  and  continue  straight.  You'll  see  Hotel  Taj  on  the  right,  continue  up  the  road  leading  at  10  o'clock  direction.  Nathan's  pharmacy  is  on  the  left. 
  
 One  is  for  humans,  the  adjacent  one  is  for  animals."

the archive is as old as 2007, but the brand name is a good start to finding the product. hopefully you  can find some praziquantel so that you can treat your fish  good luck!

WOW great find Helen. You did awesome.

 

[GGal90]

On 11/17/2018 at 7:04 PM, Helen said:

copied from an online goldfish forum archive in India.. praziquantel is available in India.. we have also had other forum members who are based in India and were able to find it.

"You  can  get  Prazi  from  Blue  Print  Medicine  Shop,  Lindsey  Street,  Kolkata.  Its  brand  name  is  DISTOCIDE  and  cost  of  one  strip  (contains  4pcs  600mg  tablets)  is   Rs  170  (approx). "

" Hi, 
  
 I  have  got  some  Praziquantel  600  mg  tablets  (no  other  constituents)  from  the  'Cash  Pharmacy'  in  Bangalore.   
 It  comes  under  the  name  of  'Distoside'.  There  are  2  other  manufacturers  of  pure  praziquantel  as  well  in  India  (do  not  remember  the  names). 
 You  can  ask  the  pharmacist  to  check  in  their  durg  books  for  this  drug  (Praziquantel)  and  they  can  identify  the  local  company  that  makes  it. 
  
 For  8  tabs  of  600  mg  each,  it  cost  me  Rs.  165/- "

"For  all  Veterinary  drugs  in  Bangalore  THE  place  to  look  for  is 
  
 Nathan's  Vet  Pharmacy  near  Russel  market. 
  
 Enter  the  area  from  Shivajinagar  bus  stand,  turn  left  at  the  church,  take  the  next  right  turn  in  front  of  beef  market  and  continue  straight.  You'll  see  Hotel  Taj  on  the  right,  continue  up  the  road  leading  at  10  o'clock  direction.  Nathan's  pharmacy  is  on  the  left. 
  
 One  is  for  humans,  the  adjacent  one  is  for  animals."

the archive is as old as 2007, but the brand name is a good start to finding the product. hopefully you  can find some praziquantel so that you can treat your fish  good luck!

Wow!! That is an amazing find😁 The state you have mentioned is Bangalore which is different from where I am from 3states down under, but next time I visit Bangalore Il check. But the brand name is a huge help and Il check in pharmacies. I didnt know they had it available as capsules and that too one tenth the price of other aquatic meds!

So just as a guidance, if I can get this capsule what should be the dosage?

 

 

 

[GGal90]

On 11/17/2018 at 9:44 PM, koko said:

WOW great find Helen. You did awesome.

 

I got bad news🥺 one of my red cap orandas tail now has a huge hole😱 there are absolutely no decorations in the tank for her to hurt her fin by! Is there any disease which creates holes in fish fin?!😔 She does sort of rub her self on the glass floors sometimes from the time I had her, maybe a month?

The Gencure still hasn't arrived and prazi tablets i didnt find in 2shops. Any suggestions attaching pics from a video I had taken. Freakin out again

[koko]

On 11/23/2018 at 7:23 AM, GGal90 said:

Is there any disease which creates holes in fish fin?!😔 She does sort of rub her self on the glass floors sometimes from the time I had her, maybe a month?

yes Flukes cause this. The only other thing you could do right now to help is salt. It won't kill them all but it would make them very uncomfy

 

[GGal90]

14 hours ago, koko said:

yes Flukes cause this. The only other thing you could do right now to help is salt. It won't kill them all but it would make them very uncomfy

 

😊Finally got the Gen cure today morning. So just a few queries

1. Should I treat entire main tank?

60 gallon tank means for 1course I need to use 6packets plus 6 after 48hours i.e I need 12 packets. I got only 10 now, so should I shift all fish to smaller basin coz I don't have another tank? Or shall I reduce the tank water to half height making it 30/40 gallons for the treatment time ?

2. Should I remove the sponges in the over head area during treatment

 Just changed water yesterday 75% so hopefully can ho ahead with treatment?

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by GGal90

[shakaho]

To treat a fish with medications containing an antibiotic, remove the fish to a "hospital tank."  A ten gallon aquarium or plastic storage box will do.  Treat the fish according to instructions.  Keep the water safe with large water changes.

If you add an antibacterial agent to your filtered tank, you will kill off filter nitrifiers.  You can, however, treat the whole tank with an antiparasitic like praziquantel. 

If you think that you must treat all of the fish, first remove your filter medium and hold it in dechlorinated water until you complete the treatment.  Maintain water quality with daily water changes.  Test your water daily.  

[GGal90]

5 minutes ago, shakaho said:

To treat a fish with medications containing an antibiotic, remove the fish to a "hospital tank."  A ten gallon aquarium or plastic storage box will do.  Treat the fish according to instructions.  Keep the water safe with large water changes.

If you add an antibacterial agent to your filtered tank, you will kill off filter nitrifiers.  You can, however, treat the whole tank with an antiparasitic like praziquantel. 

If you think that you must treat all of the fish, first remove your filter medium and hold it in dechlorinated water until you complete the treatment.  Maintain water quality with daily water changes.  Test your water daily.  

Thanks for the  response! If I finish treatment and put back the sponge, is there a chance for re-infection?

[koko]

3 hours ago, shakaho said:

To treat a fish with medications containing an antibiotic, remove the fish to a "hospital tank."  A ten gallon aquarium or plastic storage box will do.  Treat the fish according to instructions.  Keep the water safe with large water changes.

If you add an antibacterial agent to your filtered tank, you will kill off filter nitrifiers.  You can, however, treat the whole tank with an antiparasitic like praziquantel. 

If you think that you must treat all of the fish, first remove your filter medium and hold it in dechlorinated water until you complete the treatment.  Maintain water quality with daily water changes.  Test your water daily.  

I have treated the my whole tank with General Cure and haven't lost the cycle on it at all. 

I was going to suggest for the OP to treat the whole tank with GC cause of the Flukes. I was going to say to drain the tank down to half the amount of water so there wasn't so much to clean. 

 

3 hours ago, GGal90 said:

Thanks for the  response! If I finish treatment and put back the sponge, is there a chance for re-infection?

Lets see what Sharon says again

Like I told her I have treated my 40B twice with this stuff and never had a bump or anything with them  

[GGal90]

1 hour ago, koko said:

I have treated the my whole tank with General Cure and haven't lost the cycle on it at all. 

I was going to suggest for the OP to treat the whole tank with GC cause of the Flukes. I was going to say to drain the tank down to half the amount of water so there wasn't so much to clean. 

 

Lets see what Sharon says again

Like I told her I have treated my 40B twice with this stuff and never had a bump or anything with them  

Haha!! Well I did go with your initial suggestion and treated entire tank (drained tank to half ) with the sponges in. Fingers crossed 🤞

Just waiting to finish the course by Thursday evening & I am planning to fill the tank back to full and resume with water changes 75% on Sat as usual. Hope thats fine?!😊