dahling8 97 Posted September 22, 2018 I have a nicely proportioned juvenile Oranda that I'm growing out, he's always been the strongest swimmer of my 3 fish, his other tank mates are 2 juvenile ranchu. Lately over the past several weeks, I've noticed that while at rest, he prefers to chill/float at the surface and when he sees me, he springs into action with a big splash and starts swimming all over the tank. When he stops swimming, his tail end would like to float up, not quite tail over head but he's still a strong swimmer and with a couple of tail swishes he's propelling him forward and upright again. When he's foraging on the bottom for food, he puts it extra work to stay near the bottom. Would this likely be the start of a swim bladder disorder? IIRC, he's always been raised in depth of 16" from fry and he's in a 40 gallon breeder now. My plan is to continue to grow these 3 fish out in a 40 gallon breeder for maybe another 6 months and move the oranda into a 50 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank with a lower water level and leave the 2 ranchu behind, but if he continues to be "floaty" I can move him sooner. I'm happy to complete the "template" if it helps, but it's more of a general comment right now. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shakaho 6,312 Posted September 22, 2018 You should move them all into the 50 gallon Rubbermaid. The huge surface area to volume ratio makes this tank able to support many more fish than the volume suggests. The greater the area of the tank, the more the fish swim, and the better the gas exchange at the surface. Fancy goldfish need exercise to avoid buoyancy problems. Guidelines based on the surface area recommend 2 square feet of surface area per goldfish. The 40B has about 4.5 square feet of surface area, which makes it fine for two goldfish whether you stock by volume or surface area. The Rubbermaid 50 has about 10 square feet of surface area, as much as a 100 gallon stock tank. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dahling8 97 Posted September 23, 2018 Thank you, I could easily move them to the Rubbermaid 50, it's not used right now. Maximum depth is 12", would you recommend a lower water level to help with buoyancy issues with the oranda? I guestimate that there would be 40 gallons of water volume at a depth of 9-10". 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shakaho 6,312 Posted September 24, 2018 Nine inches should work well. Don't worry about the volume. With average filtration and water changes, the surface area allows this tank to support 5 mature goldfish. With superior filtration and water changes, it can support 10. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dahling8 97 Posted September 24, 2018 The were in quarantine for a couple of months in that same stock tub when I first got them. Should have just left them there! I still find it amazing how a little bit more surface area can be so much more beneficial for gold fish. Sure the stock tub is longer and wider than a 40B, but it's not unmanageable like what you would need to support 10 adults in a glass aquarium. It's just too bad that it looks so darned ugly sitting in the dining room floor. I'll just have to dress it up a bit. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shakaho 6,312 Posted September 24, 2018 We are not talking about a little more surface area, but more than twice as much. The shallow water also makes it easier for the oxygen from the air above to diffuse all the way to the bottom of the tank. Even fisheries biologists find that, for lakes of similar area, the deeper the water, the lower the fish production. You will find it quite easy to make a topless, bottomless box to go around the tank and decorate it any way you like. You might like to read this description of making a filter and continuous water change system for a Rubbermaid 50. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dahling8 97 Posted September 24, 2018 Very nice read, I'm inspired! I'll continue to go bare bottom on the Rubbermaid 50, I may struggle with lighting. The led's over a 40B is no where near as intense over a black tub especially if I'm staying bare bottom with nothing to reflect the light. I'll experiment with adding other light strips. I just might have to add in some fake floating lilys and flowers. This guy is wintering his fish in a Rubbermaid 50. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arctic Mama 3,625 Posted September 25, 2018 Shakaho is right - whatever may or may not be going on with the swim bladder, a shallower, broader water volume is only going to help. Do show us whatever you come up with, we always love ogling setups 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dahling8 97 Posted September 25, 2018 I figured the oranda should be making the move to a shallower tub, but it never crossed my mind to move the ranchus too since they appear to be doing fine in the 40B. They were due for their water change in another day, so I went ahead and moved them all into the Rubbermaid stock tank tonight. I think they do enjoy the extra room to spread out their fins, that and a 100% water change. I'll try to get some pics posted. Thanks for the suggestions! 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dahling8 97 Posted September 25, 2018 A few pics I snapped after throwing the tub together. The Rubbermaid 50 is on the floor over a tarp. If it turns out to be a permanent fixture, I'll likely have it raised a little higher on a stand. The group of fish are on the left, I'm using an overhead trickle filter mounted on some aluminum right angles which were a perfect fit on the 40B but extrudes out on the Rubbermaid. The spray/drip bars are running parallel to each other. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dahling8 97 Posted September 25, 2018 Front view of the trickle filter. I like my hardware. It holds as much media as 3 of my old 2217 Eheim Classics canister filters, but I prefer to use bonded media pads for mechanical for the top layer and 2 rows of biomedia. The biomedia is supposed to cultivate anaerobic bacteria which consumes nitrates. I was able to keep nitrates down to less than 5ppm after a week with one goldfish, but it will take more time with 3. It seems like it takes about half a year for anaerobic bacteria to catch up to the nitrate levels. I do 2 x 75% water changes on the 40B, with the odd 100% monthly thrown in. Nitrates measures about 20-25 ppm after 4 days. The filter is powered by a Cobalt MJ1200 powerhead with a pre-filter attached. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dahling8 97 Posted September 25, 2018 Mr floaty Oranda. He's swimming around much more now, so we'll see if he continues to struggle to maintain his depth. I'll be away for a couple of weeks in November, so hopefully I should have enough duckweed so I can instruct one of my fish sitter to just drop in a cupful of duckweed a day. Water level is at about 9" depth, about 40 gallons water volume on the Rubbermaid 50. He's a handful (size), about 105 grams. Some more wen growth would be nice but I wouldn't mind if he stays at the current size. My guess he is a year old. Thai based calico oranda. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dahling8 97 Posted September 25, 2018 Group shot, I don't think the tub bottom will be this clean anymore...lol A couple of ranchus, a red rescue and a lemonhead, all fish from ECR. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites