10 year old common constipated?

[Kayla102968 336]

My fish are all in a 700 gallon pond outside and for the first time Elmo my 10 year old common was struggling with cold water.  The pond went from in the fifties to 46 degrees and he was on the bottom upside down and curved.  I slowly brought his temp up inside and within two days he was upright but still bottom sitting.  

He has been inside since dec.24th and he has not pooped (that I have seen).  I've fed him many peas and also fed 4 peas (2 a day) with a tiny granule of Epsom and still no poop and bottom sitting.  His tail and fins are now clamped mostly.  I do have him on the second day of a treatment of prazi just in case...but am most concerned about him not pooping.  Some of his scales are black where he was lying on his side but the pond had 0 ammonia and i use double prime in his inside tank and never allow it to go higher than 0.5.  This means a water change every 2nd day and he is in a 45 gallon long tank.  I did also put one teaspoon of salt per gallon because he does have some rough scale patches and he seems to keep gulping air at the surface before listlessly falling back to the bottom. How do I get him to poop?

He is in a 45 gallon long.  Temperature was at 63 degrees for a week and I've now brought it up to 68 degrees with a heater.   I use buff it up for kh.   Prazi and salt and double prime are in the tank.  Ph is steady at 8.1 to 8.3.  He is the only fish in the 45 gallon inside and outside there are 23 or so fish in a 700 gallon.  The pond had 0 ammonia, 10 nitrates and pH was a steady 7.8...the temp ranged from 46 to 56 this winter so far. All other pond fish are doing well. Elmo is my first fish and I've had him for 9 years so I hope I can help him.

Thanks.

[Kayla102968 336]

Here is a video of Elmo.  He is constantly tilted on the bottom but when I approach he moves a bit and gulps at surface because he wants food.

[koko 14,377]

Thank you for that.

I would try and feed frozen blood worms with  crushed garlic  Soak the food in the garlic juice. Lets see if this might help  

 

 

[Mr. TD 383]

Sorry, glitch with the last post, had to get a screen shot..

 

[shakaho 6,312]

You might try bringing in a friend for him.  His symptoms sound like the result of cold stress,  and having a friend could help him relax.  

A pea with a granule of epsom salt inside makes a good laxative.

[DawnMichele 6,045]

Hi Kayla. Hope your Goldfish feels better soon.

[Kayla102968 336]

I'm really concerned that there has been no poop for the whole time he has been inside....Dec.24th.  I have given him 5 pieces of pea with small granules of Epsom and still nothing.  Plus he has eaten some pellets and many peas without epsom.  The Epsom granules were about the size of a grain of salt...should it be a bigger Epsom piece?  How many granules of Epsom can I try?

Koko- do bloodworms and garlic help constipation?  I haven't heard of that...but I'm willing to try :).

Sharon - I'm worried about bringing a friend in and stressing out another fish too.  With the tank not being cycled I'm doing large water changes every 2nd day and i only have an ac110 filter in the 45 gallon long...will that be good enough for 2 fish...or will I need another filter?  Plus I worry that if he has something parasitic that I might make another fish ill.

Thank you for fixing my d and d report :).

[Kayla102968 336]

25 minutes ago, DawnMichele said:

Hi Kayla. Hope your Goldfish feels better soon.

Thank you Dawn...she was our first goldfish many years ago :).

[koko 14,377]

3 hours ago, Kayla102968 said:

 

Koko- do bloodworms and garlic help constipation?  I haven't heard of that...but I'm willing to try :).

Im just wondering if the fish is hungry and maybe has something else going on. He looks very thin to me. 

[Kayla102968 336]

There is definitely something wrong.  He can't actively swim and just sinks to the bottom and clamps his fins constantly.  He can't even swim around to get the bloodworms...i have to drop them exactly in front of his nose.  Then  he chews and chews awkwardly and very exaggeratedly.  Still no poop.  About 4 times a day he swims awkwardly to the surface and pushes his whole head out of the water grabbing air...then just lets his body sink to the bottom again without even trying to swim.

I'll keep feeding him but I'm concerned he hasn't pooped even with 2 days of Epsom peas.  

[DawnMichele 6,045]

Hi Kayla. How is he doing today?

[koko 14,377]

12 hours ago, Kayla102968 said:

There is definitely something wrong.  He can't actively swim and just sinks to the bottom and clamps his fins constantly.  He can't even swim around to get the bloodworms...i have to drop them exactly in front of his nose.  Then  he chews and chews awkwardly and very exaggeratedly.  Still no poop.  About 4 times a day he swims awkwardly to the surface and pushes his whole head out of the water grabbing air...then just lets his body sink to the bottom again without even trying to swim.

I'll keep feeding him but I'm concerned he hasn't pooped even with 2 days of Epsom peas.  

I would like to try something if you can find it.

Metro and Focus from Seachem and some Duckweed.

The Seachem you might be able to find at Petsmart or a Mom and pop fish store. Same with the Duckweed.

Metro is going to kill any bacteria in his system and the Duckweed is the food of all foods for goldfish  

[Kayla102968 336]

Hi Koko.

I have seachem metroplex is that metro?  I do have a petstore that sells the seachem focus and also duckweed.

How long would I do metroplex for?  Is Focus a waterborne medication or do you put it in food?  Can I do both metro and focus at same time?

Thanks for your help.

 

[koko 14,377]

3 minutes ago, Kayla102968 said:

Hi Koko.

I have seachem metroplex is that metro? 

yes  

3 minutes ago, Kayla102968 said:

I do have a petstore that sells the seachem focus and also duckweed.

How long would I do metroplex for?

I would use it for no less than 14 days

 

3 minutes ago, Kayla102968 said:

  Is Focus a waterborne medication or do you put it in food? 

That is for bonding the meto to it  you put the frozen blood worms in a cup with the Metro and the focus, that will bond the metro to the blood worms.  

3 minutes ago, Kayla102968 said:

Can I do both metro and focus at same time?

Thanks for your help.

 

yes

 

[koko 14,377]

Also just put the duckweed in his tank.  This will give him other food to eat and its good for them  

[Kayla102968 336]

Here is Elmo today.  She doesn't constantly bottom sit now but the following symptoms still concern me:

She bottom sits other than when I come over and she wants food... and after eating she also bottom sits.  She has difficulty swimming ...she works hard and it's awkward.  She can't maneuver well to find and get food...sometimes she falls to her side.  She comes up and out of the water quite far (whole head)...quite often.  She can't eat very much at a time and struggles chewing even though food is mushy.  

She has a lot of black marks on her that weren't on her outside in pond.  It looks bad.  There has been some ammonia in tank (.25 to 0.5) even though I do 50 to 75% water changes every 2nd day... but i use double prime.  There was 0 ammonia in pond.

How often can I add a dose of prime in tank?  If it has been 24 hours since last prime dose...can I do another single dose of prime to protect for another 24 hours?  Or can you only do a double dose of prime and then need to do a water change after 24 hours again?

I haven't tried mixing metro with focus and putting blood worms in it.  I'm nervous she'll eat too much metro and I'll hurt or kill her...ack :(.  But I do have it available at home now :).

She does have duck weed...but doesn't seem to eat it.  No poop seen yet. I am soaking pellets in garlic and feeding bloodworms in garlic but I have to get them to land exactly a bit in front of her face or she misses them and doesn't find them.  I also have to feed only a few at a time or she loses interest.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Kayla102968

[koko 14,377]

39 minutes ago, Kayla102968 said:

Here is Elmo today.  She doesn't constantly bottom sit now but the following symptoms still concern me:

She bottom sits other than when I come over and she wants food... and after eating she also bottom sits.  She has difficulty swimming ...she works hard and it's awkward.  She can't maneuver well to find and get food...sometimes she falls to her side.  She comes up and out of the water quite far (whole head)...quite often.  She can't eat very much at a time and struggles chewing even though food is mushy.  

She has a lot of black marks on her that weren't on her outside in pond.  It looks bad.  There has been some ammonia in tank (.25 to 0.5) even though I do 50 to 75% water changes every 2nd day... but i use double prime.  There was 0 ammonia in pond.

is there a filter on the tank? 

39 minutes ago, Kayla102968 said:

How often can I add a dose of prime in tank?  If it has been 24 hours since last prime dose...can I do another single dose of prime to protect for another 24 hours?  Or can you only do a double dose of prime and then need to do a water change after 24 hours again?

I would change the water our in the 24 hours.  

39 minutes ago, Kayla102968 said:

I haven't tried mixing metro with focus and putting blood worms in it.  I'm nervous she'll eat too much metro and I'll hurt or kill her...ack :(.  But I do have it available at home now :).

If you do the directions of the Metro and focus its not going to kill her  The fact that she is trying so hard to eat is a great sign.

One scoop Metro and 5 scoops Focus + garlic juice. Let it all thaw out and feed it to her  

If she doesn't eat it all in 5 mins then siphon it out  

39 minutes ago, Kayla102968 said:

She does have duck weed...but doesn't seem to eat it.  No poop seen yet. I am soaking pellets in garlic and feeding bloodworms in garlic but I have to get them to land exactly a bit in front of her face or she misses them and doesn't find them.  I also have to feed only a few at a time or she loses interest.

Are you still treating with Prazi. To me it seems that her throat is bothering her. When she chews like that over and over again something inside the mouth hurts. She wants to eat but it hurts.

The Metro will help with bacterial issues and the prazi will kill flukes. The garlic is a good food for the immune system and so is duckweed.  

[shakaho 6,312]

Dose Prime daily.  I see no reason for a double dose unless the ammonia concentration exceeds 1 ppm.

Would you consider putting her in a six inch deep underbed tote instead of that deep tank?  If not, would you consider half-filling the tank?  As long as the fins don't stick out of the water, the shallower the water the easier it is for the fish to swim upright and the more it will swim.  Exercise helps keep the digestive tract working.

If she eats peas, feed just peas until you see green poop.   She's more likely to eat duckweed if the water is shallow.

Black indicates healing tissue, more black suggests improvement.

Edited January 5, 2018 by shakaho

[koko 14,377]

4 hours ago, shakaho said:

Would you consider putting her in a six inch deep underbed tote instead of that deep tank?  If not, would you consider half-filling the tank?  As long as the fins don't stick out of the water, the shallower the water the easier it is for the fish to swim upright and the more it will swim.  Exercise helps keep the digestive tract working.

Good thinking that was my last suggestion to her  

[Kayla102968 336]

Thank you for the comments and suggestions.  There is a new symptom today and that is a kinked spine at her tail.  Of course I googled it and now I'm panicked that she has TB.  I read that it can be transmitted to people and of course I have tons of scratches on my hands and constantly have my hands in the tank.  I will post a video shortly of the kinked tail.

[Kayla102968 336]

Here's the video of Elmo's kinked spine.  

 

I did do one dose of prazi for 3 or 4 days and did a water change yesterday and didn't replace it.  Should I do another dose in a few days?

If I lower the tank to 1/2 way I won't be able to use the ac 110 filter anymore...would that be worse?

I am also struggling keeping the kh in the tank up.  I was using an old buff it up from when I had indoor tank before and it was working well.  I ordered a new pond buff it up since that was all I could find, and I've added enough for a 300 gallon tank and the kh has only gone from 36 to 73.  I can't seem to get the kh higher.  Before I was able to get it to 120.  I've been checking the pH though, and luckily it hasn't fallen by much in 2 days...only 0.2 (8.1 to 7.9).

[shakaho 6,312]

I don't use a filter in a hospital tank, just water changes.  I use two underbed totes  like this and do 100% water changes every second day by the bucket to bucket method.

Why are you trying to change the KH when you have a tank pH of 8.1 and a tap 8.3?  What test did you use to get those numbers? If you feel you must raise the KH, use baking soda.  Add it in small amounts (like 1/4 teaspoon) until you get the pH where you want it.

[koko 14,377]

6 hours ago, shakaho said:

I don't use a filter in a hospital tank, just water changes.  I use two underbed totes  like this and do 100% water changes every second day by the bucket to bucket method.

Why are you trying to change the KH when you have a tank pH of 8.1 and a tap 8.3?  What test did you use to get those numbers? If you feel you must raise the KH, use baking soda.  Add it in small amounts (like 1/4 teaspoon) until you get the pH where you want it.

I like this idea much better

I would do the bucket to bucket right now with the Metro food  

[Kayla102968 336]

Sharon - the tap pH drops really quickly to below 7.  The kh is only 37. Even though the pH is high...the low kh makes it drop quick. 

Before when I had indoor tanks, buff it up used to keep the kh high enough for a longer time than baking soda.  I guess I'll try baking soda and see how it goes.

[koko 14,377]

10 hours ago, Kayla102968 said:

Sharon - the tap pH drops really quickly to below 7.  The kh is only 37. Even though the pH is high...the low kh makes it drop quick. 

Before when I had indoor tanks, buff it up used to keep the kh high enough for a longer time than baking soda.  I guess I'll try baking soda and see how it goes.

The other optition even though it might cost some, easy for my tank though, is a Wondershell, they keep the kh and ph stable.

Have you given her the metro yet and how is she?