Oranda bottom sitting and dark lump in tail

[Jesse Braxton 1]

Hi all,

My oranda, Darla, has been doing a lot of bottom sitting for the last few months, and has recently developed a dark lump in his tail.  I'd love some help figuring out how to help him get better.  Here's the info:

Test Results for the Following: * Ammonia Level(Tank)  0 * Nitrite Level(Tank)  0 * Nitrate level(Tank)  80 * Ammonia Level(Tap)  1.0 * Nitrite Level(Tap)  0 * Nitrate level(Tap)  20 * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  7.2 * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  7.2 Other Required Info: * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API * Water temperature?  77 * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?  55 gallons, 4 years * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?  Fluval 406, up to 100 gallons * How often do you change the water and how much?  75% water changes.  I've done them every other week recently for the last two months, before that was doing them monthly.

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  75% water change yesterday * How many fish in the tank and their size?  only 1 fish, about 8" * What kind of water additives or conditioners?  Prime * What do you feed your fish and how often?  Sho Impact, once a day * Any new fish added to the tank?  No * Any medications added to the tank?  Yesterday added aquarium salt (1 tsp/gal) and Prazi. * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  Salt and prazi have been the only medications used in the last four years.  Prazi just for a few days at a time, salt for a few weeks when the fish showed signs of finrot. * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?  Black lump in his tail. * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?  Mostly sitting on the bottom.  He seems to be able to move around and get off the bottom, but it requires some effort.

 

Thanks for your help!

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Edited August 9, 2017 by Jesse Braxton

[koko 14,377]

When you feel the lump is it hard or soft? Is there anything like a string poking out of it any where? 

Have you added any new plants to the tank.? 

Also when you can could we have a full tank shot?

When or how often do you clean the canister? when you do do you dump the water out? 

[Jesse Braxton 1]

The lump feels hard.  Not as hard as a pebble, but harder than Darla's body.  I don't see anything like a string coming out of it, but it has a couple small bumps that push into his tail.  

I haven't added new plants in a few years.  

I've been cleaning the canister about every six months, and when I do I dump the water out and rinse the media in tank water.

[DawnMichele 6,045]

Hope Darla feels better.

[mjfromga 1,785]

Your water changes aren't frequent enough. Your nitrate is way too high. I watched the video. Poor color and fin condition, a bit of extra slime, wen overgrowth, and what looks like a swim bladder issue. Just looks like he's getting sick.

I'm not sure what the lump is, but the first order of business is to keep doing changes until nitrate is below 20 ppm and keep it there. You need to clean your canister more often, as well. 

[koko 14,377]

1 hour ago, mjfromga said:

Your water changes aren't frequent enough. Your nitrate is way too high. I watched the video. Poor color and fin condition, a bit of extra slime, wen overgrowth, and what looks like a swim bladder issue. Just looks like he's getting sick.

I'm not sure what the lump is, but the first order of business is to keep doing changes until nitrate is below 20 ppm and keep it there. You need to clean your canister more often, as well. 

We won't be able to the the nitrates below 20 . Since the nitrates are 20ppm out of the tap. 

[koko 14,377]

First thing I would like you to do is water changes. I would like you to do 3 back to back water changes of 50%. We need to work on the water quality. Also I would highly suggest cleaning that Canister every time you do a water change. They build up a lot of gunk if not cleaned and will make the fish sick.  

[mjfromga 1,785]

I didn't notice that. Maybe some Pothos plants would help. They like nitrate. 

[koko 14,377]

Just now, mjfromga said:

I didn't notice that. Maybe some Pothos plants would help. They like nitrate. 

True, the Op will need to keep an eye on the plant and its roots. Some times the plant will start to melt and the roots can be an issue for the goldfish making them sick  

[mjfromga 1,785]

I had some that did really well when I sat them in my filter. I wouldn't stick the roots directly in the tank. They like to melt when you do that. 

[Jesse Braxton 1]

Thanks for the recommendations, and I'll get started on the water changes and canister cleaning tomorrow.  

Getting the nitrates down has been an ongoing problem–20 is actually the lowest I've ever measured in the tap water.  I'd love to get some plants in there that would eat up the nitrate.  Is pothos in a hob filter a safe way to go?  Are there other plants I should look into?

[koko 14,377]

11 hours ago, Jesse Braxton said:

Thanks for the recommendations, and I'll get started on the water changes and canister cleaning tomorrow.  

Getting the nitrates down has been an ongoing problem–20 is actually the lowest I've ever measured in the tap water.  I'd love to get some plants in there that would eat up the nitrate.  Is pothos in a hob filter a safe way to go?  Are there other plants I should look into?

You can do a Pothos or Bamboo they booth will live in the filter. The only caution I have is if you have cats. Cats if they eat Pothos or bamboo can make them sick. So just be safe  

[vimandvigrrrpet 35]

What do you mean by "on the filter. Do you just sit them in the top?

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[shakaho 6,313]

You open the lid of the filter and put them in the water at the top.

You can also plant them in pots of gravel (or better, hydroponic grow medium) put the pots in soap holders with suction cups like this, and attach them to the wall of the tank.

[koko 14,377]

9 hours ago, vimandvigrrrpet said:

What do you mean by "on the filter. Do you just sit them in the top?

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[vimandvigrrrpet 35]

Awesome thanks...I think I will try this...

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[koko 14,377]

On August 9, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Jesse Braxton said:

Thanks for the recommendations, and I'll get started on the water changes and canister cleaning tomorrow.  

Getting the nitrates down has been an ongoing problem–20 is actually the lowest I've ever measured in the tap water.  I'd love to get some plants in there that would eat up the nitrate.  Is pothos in a hob filter a safe way to go?  Are there other plants I should look into?

how are things going? 

[Jesse Braxton 1]

I did the three water changes and cleaned out the canister, and just measured the nitrates at 30ppm, which I know is still too high, but with the tap water up at 20 I'm much happier with that.  Darla has been more active, but still mostly at the bottom of the tank and still has the dark lump in his tail.  I've got a few pothos clippings sitting in the hob filter now, so I'm hoping that will help with the nitrates over time.  I'd love any other suggestions!

[Jesse Braxton 1]

Okay, back with an update.  We've added an AquaClear hob filter and have been growing pothos out of it for the last few weeks, done at least 1 water change every week for the last month, and have cleaned the canister out when we've changed the water.  Even with all of that I have not been able to get the nitrates down below 20, which is what comes out of the tap.  

Darla has been a little more active, but still mostly bottom sitting, and continues to have a dark lump in his tail.  Yesterday I noticed that he looked a little bloated, and some of his scales are sticking out.  He's pretty clumsy, maybe from wen overgrowth, so might have gotten a little beat up from scraping on rocks, but I'm also concerned about dropsy.  I just moved him to a 20 gallon QT tank and added 1/2 teaspoon epsom salt.  Below are a few pictures of him, and the updated info on the main tank that I just moved him from.

I'm wondering whether I should start him on antibiotics or not, and also whether to try a wen trimming (which I've read about but don't know how to do yet).  Thanks for your advice!

 

Test Results for the Following: * Ammonia Level(Tank)  0 * Nitrite Level(Tank)  0 * Nitrate level(Tank)  40 * Ammonia Level(Tap)  0.50 * Nitrite Level(Tap)  0 * Nitrate level(Tap)  20 * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  8.0 * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)  7.2 Other Required Info: * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API * Water temperature?  77 * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?  55 gallons, 4 years * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?  Fluval 406, up to 100 gallons, Aquaclear 110 power filter * How often do you change the water and how much?  75% water changes weekly.

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  75% water change today. * How many fish in the tank and their size?  3 fish, one 8" oranda, one 6 inch oranda, one 2 inch ranchu. * What kind of water additives or conditioners?  Prime * What do you feed your fish and how often?  Sho Impact and garlic peas once a day * Any new fish added to the tank?  Added the smaller oranda and ranchu a month ago * Any medications added to the tank?  Aquarium salt, 0.3% * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  Salt and prazi have been the only medications used in the last four years.  * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?  Black lump in large oranda's tail, some red in the pelvic fin of the 6" blue oranda (has been there for the month that I've had her). * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?  Large oranda usually sits on the bottom, but has been more active recently.

[koko 14,377]

If it was me I would get him into a 10 QT and give him General Cure. I would also give him Garlic soaked blood worms.  

 

[Jesse Braxton 1]

On 9/17/2017 at 2:55 PM, koko said:

If it was me I would get him into a 10 QT and give him General Cure. I would also give him Garlic soaked blood worms.  

 

Thanks, I've got him in QT with General Cure now.  To make the garlic soaked blood worms can I just use a garlic press over frozen blood worms, or is there a better way to do that?

[koko 14,377]

14 hours ago, Jesse Braxton said:

Thanks, I've got him in QT with General Cure now.  To make the garlic soaked blood worms can I just use a garlic press over frozen blood worms, or is there a better way to do that?

You can do it that way  let the worms sit in the garlic till the worms thaw out.  

I would turn off the filter till he has eaten all the worms. Then turn it back on. This makes sure it eats it all, if he hasnt eaten it all by 3 mins then I would siphon it out and  or scope it out  

[Arctic Mama 3,648]

How is it going?

[koko 14,377]

20 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

How is it going?

[Jesse Braxton 1]

No major changes.  I gave him two rounds of General Cure with two days off in between.  I also picked up some Garlic Guard to make it easier to give him garlicky blood worms, which he seems to love.  Seems like he might be slightly less pineconey, but nothing dramatically different.