Guess who...

[titch 104]

I'm back...again 

Quick update - Winston & Piggy both moved into the new tank (600 litres) on Saturday afternoon along with the old/existing Fluval FX6 (I cleaned it in fresh Primed water several times as recommended).

The tank has 1" layer of TMS, airstone and 2 FX6 filters (the other is completely brand new) running at 24.5*C. Overall dimensions are 6' x 2' x 2'

Yesterday I thought Winston was looking puffy. This morning he's definitely pineconing. I've transferred him to a QT (40 litres) with 1/2tsp of Epsom (20g). I have Oxymav B on hand, as recommended by FishyMandy for dropsy cases.

Aside from the raised scales, he's not showing any issues - his redness has gone completely (no wen rash, no blotches on sides or lateral line and the redness in his tail is subsiding).

 

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) – 0.25ppm

* Nitrite Level(Tank) – 0ppm

* Nitrate level(Tank) – 5ppm

* Ammonia Level(Tap) – 0.25ppm

* Nitrite Level(Tap) – 0ppm

* Nitrate level(Tap) – 5ppm. Nitrates out my tap are generally 20-40ppm so I use a Pozzani filter to filter the water into tubs which I treat with Prime and usually let sit for 24hrs before adding to the tank. The ‘tap’ figures above are the levels in the water that has been filtered, treated and stood.

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) – 8.2ph

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) – 7.4ph

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API freshwater master kit (drops)

* Water temperature? – 24.5C

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? Approx. 600litres, running 1 week total but 2 only days with fish (prior to that, Juwel Rio 240 litres, running 2.5 years)

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 x Fluval FX6 (3500lph) - #1 set up on 01-Dec, #2 set up on 13-May

* How often do you change the water and how much? Yet to do a WC - planned to do tomorrow - 200 litres (third)

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? N/A

* How many fish in the tank and their size?  2 in total. Chocolate Oranda “Piggy” approx. 3 years old (6” body), White Oranda “Winston” approx.. 3 years old (4” body)

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Saki Hikari purple bag, seaweed, bloodworm (frozen), Tetra Gold Japan, Hikari Oranda Gold (saturated using a pellet pump), occasional veggie usually peas/lettuce/cucumber

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? Fluke Solve added on Saturday as soon as the fish were introduced

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. 

Melafix and Pimafix to main tank 9-Oct to 14-Oct

Salt Dips (Winston) 15-Oct to 20-Oct (max. 2% for 5 mins)

Fluke Solve to main tank 29-Oct to 12-Nov (2 weeks) Salt @ 0.3%

Silver Dips (Winston) 29-Oct to 9-Nov

Fluke Solve in QT tank (Winston) 12-Nov to 26-Nov (2 weeks) Salt @ 0.3%

Metro+ & Furan-2 in QT tank (Winston) 18-Dec to 31-Dec

Metroplex & Kanaplex in QT tank (Winston) 29-Jan to 08-Feb

Metroplex in QT tank (Winston) 10-Feb to 16-Feb

Fluke Solve & Metroplex in QT tank (Winston) 26-Feb to 04-Mar (1 week)

Silver in QT tank (Winston) 07-Mar to 13-Apr - 10 drops initially, raising to 25 drops 

Winston reintroduced to main tank on 14-Apr

Fluke Solve & Metroplex to main tank 15-Apr to 29-Apr

Silver added to main tank (20 drops) the night before every WC starting 02-May

Fluke Solve added to new tank 20-May

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Winston displaying raised scales

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? None

Meds on hand include - Fluke Solve, Oxymav B, Acriflavine, Metroplex, Kanaplex, Sulfaplex, Focus, Triple Sulfa, Furan-2 & Silver

Edited May 22, 2017 by titch

[mjfromga 1,785]

Poor guy. Wishing you luck. 

[titch 104]

8 hours ago, mjfromga said:

Poor guy. Wishing you luck. 

Thank you. He sure has been through the wars in the last few months.

I don't think it's looking good though.

Could someone confirm how should I treat please? He's currently in QT with just Epsom (1/2tsp).

[mjfromga 1,785]

The best results I've seen with ugly dropsy is with medicated metronidazole FOOD. One scoop of metro in about a week's worth of food. Fed at 1% daily approximately. Any other medication can be added to the water as normal. And all the breeders and sellers of fish I've asked about dropsy treatment recommend it second to injections. I find its easiest to feed the metro in Repashy gel with some garlic added to ward off the medicine taste. I know on this site they tend to recommend water borne metro usually though so I'm just tossing it out there. I understand using it in the water if the fish won't eat but it works better when fed from what I gather. Just trying to help since the mods seem busy. 

[Arctic Mama 3,651]

You're already medicated him extensively and seen improvement temporarily, but it didn't kick it.  I don't think medicating again is going to do anything but prolong his life a bit.  We could compound the oxy and metro to a medicated food, I think Myra is right about that, but it is a pain and I don't think it's going to work.  We have exposed him to sufficiently long courses of these medications more than once.

 

So it's your call.  Do you want to make a gel food with the meds and try it or just let him live out his days with Epsom salt as long as he is eating and swimming around?

[DawnMichele 6,045]

Hope he feels better soon.

[titch 104]

9 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

You're already medicated him extensively and seen improvement temporarily, but it didn't kick it.  I don't think medicating again is going to do anything but prolong his life a bit.  We could compound the oxy and metro to a medicated food, I think Myra is right about that, but it is a pain and I don't think it's going to work.  We have exposed him to sufficiently long courses of these medications more than once.

 

So it's your call.  Do you want to make a gel food with the meds and try it or just let him live out his days with Epsom salt as long as he is eating and swimming around?

Morning. 

Thanks for the reply. I'd like to give the medicated food a go at least. 

Can I do it with pellets rather than gel (I have Seachem Focus). How do I go about it I.e. Measuring & mixing etc?

[Arctic Mama 3,651]

Yes you can use the Focus as follows:

1. 1 scoop of metronidazole and an equal scoop of oxytetracycline.
2. 1 scoop Focus
3. 1 tbsp pellets
4. A few drops of water to bind it together in a paste.

Refrigerate this between uses and feed two pellets at a time 3x daily until the medication is gone, which should be about a week.  This assumes the pellets are about the size of saki hikari.  If you're using a different food let me know and I am modify the amount.

[titch 104]

4 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yes you can use the Focus as follows:

1. 1 scoop of metronidazole and an equal scoop of oxytetracycline.
2. 1 scoop Focus
3. 1 tbsp pellets
4. A few drops of water to bind it together in a paste.

Refrigerate this between uses and feed two pellets at a time 3x daily until the medication is gone, which should be about a week.  This assumes the pellets are about the size of saki hikari.  If you're using a different food let me know and I am modify the amount.

Thank you, thank you!!

Just to be clear - don't feed anything to else during this time? Just the 6 pellets a day?

Also a tablespoon or teaspoon of pellets? 

Edited May 24, 2017 by titch

[Arctic Mama 3,651]

Tablespoon of pellets and feed that exclusively.  In fact, it really doesn't matter what the pellet size is, just divide the tablespoon into seven equal doses for seven days and then feed a few at a time until that day's portion is complete.  That will insure we are getting a high enough quantity of medication dosed.   

[titch 104]

On 5/24/2017 at 8:40 AM, Arctic Mama said:

Tablespoon of pellets and feed that exclusively.  In fact, it really doesn't matter what the pellet size is, just divide the tablespoon into seven equal doses for seven days and then feed a few at a time until that day's portion is complete.  That will insure we are getting a high enough quantity of medication dosed.   

Ok so Winston will complete his weeks worth of medicated food today. He's been in 10g QT with 1/2tsp Epsom & daily 100% WC.

I see no improvement, only deterioration if I'm honest. His scales have raised further, he has some yellowing discolouration on his sides (underneath the scales - more prominent on his left), a red rash to his belly and redness/spots in his tail are starting to reappear.

He is acting perfectly normal - he's active, feeding well and pooping fine.

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I'll ask anyway...

Do you think it's time to let him go?

As much as I'm happy to let him live out his days with Epsom, I don't feel it's any quality of life, being stuck in QT. Additionally (and this sounds awful, I know), with me going on holiday in a few weeks time, it's just not practical to keep him in QT while I'm away - there's literally no-one to check on him, feed or carry out WCs. I hope you don't think ill of me saying that.

After having to euth Dad a couple of months ago (again because of dropsy) and my heart actually breaking while doing it, I never thought I would be so 'calm' if and when the decision had to be made again.

Is it the right decision? Or am I being too quick to give in? Or maybe making the decision for the wrong reasons?

We've thrown no-end of meds at him for over 6 months and whilst I saw some major improvement a couple of weeks ago (he looked the best ever), could the arrival of dropsy be someone's way of saying "enough"?

Thoughts?

[shakaho 6,313]

I'm also pretty sure you know the answer.  With your holiday, your choices are to leave him in the QT which becomes toxic with time without care or to put him in the main tank where he may die and pollute that tank.

[DawnMichele 6,045]

[koko 14,384]

Oh hun. This is heart breaking  

[titch 104]

1 hour ago, shakaho said:

I'm also pretty sure you know the answer.  With your holiday, your choices are to leave him in the QT which becomes toxic with time without care or to put him in the main tank where he may die and pollute that tank.

Yes, figured that was the answer. Just not the one I wanted. What I wanted was the miracle cure!

1 hour ago, DawnMichele said:

 

19 minutes ago, koko said:

Oh hun. This is heart breaking  

Thank you.

Pretty gutted after what you've all done for him over the last few months. This wasn't the outcome I wanted, nor expected.

Edited June 1, 2017 by titch

[FishyMandy 6,299]

I'm so sorry I hate it when you throw everything at a fish and think they are better and then something like this happens

[Arctic Mama 3,651]

I'm sorry. I had to euthanize one of my favorites a few days ago too.  Hugs

[titch 104]

10 hours ago, FishyMandy said:

I'm so sorry I hate it when you throw everything at a fish and think they are better and then something like this happens

I know, really thought we were getting somewhere... 

8 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I'm sorry. I had to euthanize one of my favorites a few days ago too.  Hugs

Aw, sorry to hear that Taryl. Can't imagine it ever gets easier to do. I do feel more at peace with it though. I know in my heart it's the right decision for him.

Thank you all for your support 

I'll do the deed tomorrow (Saturday) and let him enjoy a last couple of meals of his favourites.

[titch 104]

He's gone. SIP Winston. 

❤️

[koko 14,384]

47 minutes ago, titch said:

He's gone. SIP Winston. 

❤️

Oh hun. Im so sorry  

[titch 104]

16 minutes ago, koko said:

Oh hun. Im so sorry  

Thank you. It was the right thing to do. Still not easy though. 

[Arctic Mama 3,651]

Hugs to you

[FishyMandy 6,299]

I'm so sorry  

[koko 14,384]

22 hours ago, titch said:

Thank you. It was the right thing to do. Still not easy though. 

Never easy hun never  

[DawnMichele 6,045]

So sorry for your loss. RIP Winston.