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Golldies

Bloat and scales shedding

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Hi, I had a 20+ gallon fish tank which was set up about 1½ year ago. I previously had 5 lion/ranchu in it and all was well and healthy until my whole family went for a 5 days trip and return home to a tank of dead fishes. I had kept them for nearly 10mths. Water change once a week and test run the auto feeder 2 mths before my trip and all was well so I planned and did a usual water change a day before I leave and on the day I left they are still well. I thought they would be well since I tested the auto feeder and water change would still be once a week but they somehow end up dead…. So after that I had problem getting the tank cycled until 1 or 2 mths later it’s finally done and I got 3 new lion/ranchus. 2 orange and one black. The black on is the smallest about 4 to 5 cm and the oranges ones are about 6 to 7 cm from mouth to tail. I had them for nearly 4 mths now and about 2 weeks ago, the black ones started having prob. It is not eating, so I confine it in a container within the main tank as I do not have a quarantine tank. I did water change although my water parameter seems ok. Ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate 10. She did not eat for 7 days and at day 7 I decided to give it a salt bath with aquarium salt. On the 8th day, it started eating. It continue to do well for the following 3 days and so I release it back to the main tank and observe that the others are not bulling it. Then I went out to get something and when I reach home in the evening, I saw a lot of scales at the bottom of my fishtank. My fish tank is bare bottom with only 2 grass like plants. So I though while I was away, it got bullied and so I confine it back to the container to observe. Scales are ALL missing under its belly area. It is still eating and active, but the next day, it belly had swelled up and its scale had started to point outwards. i pick it up to see if it had any wound and also gently massage its belly. It has no wound and its belly de-swelled immediately after the massage. But the next day it swelled back up again so I research dropsy and found that could try metronidazole and Epsom salt. I can’t get Epsom salt but can get some metronidazole tablet. I crushed the tablet and soak a small pinch of the powder to its food pellets but it refused to eat the laced food so I ended up syringe feeding it the food with the medication and doing the gentle massage(its belly would immediately de-swell after each massage) and today is day 3 of the treatment. Overnight, its belly did not swell back up any more and its scale are not as pine cone anymore. The problem I have is its scale are still continuing to drop off so it’s now like 75% of its body had no scales and some of its scales has started to discolour also, does dropsy caused scales to fall off? What else can I do? I had been doing water change more frequently also but my water parameter tested is ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate usually under 30. Ph is always aournd 7.1 or so. i am not sure if it is recovering or getting worse. I terms of the bloat it is better but in terms of the scales, it is looking worse. Sorry for the long essay. Would appreciate any help. Thanks

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Hi, if you could fill out this form it would make it easier for mods to assess the problem (I know you have answered some of this information already but having it all in the form makes it easier to see and read) If you have trouble copying and pasting you can quote my post and fill it in there. Some photos would help a lot too
I seen on your other thread that you already know 20g is too small for this number of fish, but you might find our guidelines helpful to read 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
Edited by FishyMandy

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Hi, thanks for the reply and below are my answers.

Test Results for the Following:

  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) 20
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) 5
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Ph 7.2
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Ph 7.2
  • Other Required Info:
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API test kit
    • * Water temperature? Around 22 to 23 degree
    • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20+gallon, running for about 1.5 yrs
    • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? I cannot remember. It’s a over tank filter
    • * How often do you change the water and how much – once weekly 50% water change
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 3 days ago, changed 50%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 lion/ranchu. 2 (orange) about 6-7cm and 1 (black) 4 to 5 cm from mouth to tail end
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Aquarium salt and Bio Stress guard water conditioner
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Commercial fish pellets, 6 days once or twice daily and 1 day of fasting
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank?  Added an ocean free medication on last week which does slime, velvet disease, but did not water change twice after and did not add anymore as it does not seems to work
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Aquarium salt being added all the while since I started the tank. Only medicine I added is the ocean free medication, no other meds added. Black fish is healthy and well until 2 weeks ago (around 13/3), still swimming actively but not eating. White stringy poop on and off. Aquarium salt dip on 20/3 and started eating on 21/3. Release from confine area to join rest of fish on 24/3 noon as appetite has resumed. 24 evening, all scale on under belly had dropped off, so confined again, still eating well but next day has a swollen belly and scales pointing outwards. no wounds, swelling goes off once belly is being massaged but comes back again day after. Started metronidazole tablet, crushed 1 tablet and take one small pinch, add a little tank water and let food pellet soak up mixture and syringe feed. Belly massage once or twice daily if it’s very bloated. Today morning (29/3), belly did not swell back up overnight. Scale looks not as pine coned but still shedding off and losing color. Almost 75% of scale is missing on its body and its black colour is turning gold. Just noticed that one of the orange coloured one is bloated also. Yesterday night it was still fine and not bloated, still active and eating. Fed it peas in case its constipation.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? A few days after black fish stop eating, realise that it does not seems to open its mouth like usual fishes do to breath. Uses a pipette and want to try to open its mouth but it opened its mouth on its own when pipette goes near, nothing can be seen. Another 2 days later, saw it spitting whitish stuff from mouth thus did a salt dip and a lot of white stuff came out. Not sure what the white stuff are but suspect fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? No unusual behaviour, swimming around fine but just refusing to eat.

Do you all think I should just give metronidazole to the other 2 fishes since they are all in the same tank?

Edited by Golldies

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Can you please post pics of the fish that seems to be losing it's scales?  You will need to use a photo hosting site such as photobucket  . . .

 

Are all 3 fish refusing to eat?  have stringy white poop?

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Photo of the losing scale fish. This is the best i could capture as it dosen stop moving. It looks weaker then in the morning. I don't think its going to survive. My family told me it escaped from the confine container somehow and i think the other 2 had been chasing it. Thus more scales are missing.

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Aliciacyh/media/20170329_230135.jpg.html?filters[user]=11940255&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=2

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Aliciacyh/media/20170329_230113.jpg.html?filters[user]=11940255&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=1

Photo of the orange one tat is bloated up

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Aliciacyh/media/20170329_225329.jpg.html?filters[user]=11940255&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=3

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Aliciacyh/media/20170329_225330.jpg.html?filters[user]=11940255&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

The 2 orange fishes are still eating and once you stand in front of the tank they will swim up thinking there is food. They all have stringy white poop on n off

Edited by Golldies

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Update- the black goldfish had died. The orange goldfish is still bloated but still eating and active, scales still slightly raised. What else can be done? I just did a water change coz my reading had gone up probably coz of the dead fish in water for a few hours. Now readings are back to normal.

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Could I have a full tank shot hun :) 

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Here is the tank. Previously had 2 plants in it but i removed them since the fishes are getting sick and i thought a bare tank(only 2 fake fish decoration) is better now until they are well.

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Aliciacyh/media/20170330_230540.jpg.html?filters[user]=11940255&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Aliciacyh/media/20170330_230647.jpg.html?filters[user]=11940255&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=1

Update -

Both remaining fish are still very active and eating well. Saw their poops a while ago, both had nice short poop the colour of their food. 

I had ordered epsom salt. Should reach within these few days. Hope it could sort of help..... 1 question to clear. The swollen fish is a female as i had seen it laying eggs before. But she can't be egg bound since she has raised scales. Is that right?

Edited by Golldies

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Have you ever prazied this fish? 

It sounds me be on the beginnings of Dropy's ..... We got Epsom salt coming... 

I would like you to try and get Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride and metroplex

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thks for the reply,

when you mean prazied the fish, do you mean to de-worm them? if so i had not de-worm them. i can't get the fish deworming pills from my lfs(they gave me a medication to kill snail and freshwater worms but i don't know if it will work). i was wondering if i could use cat or dog de wormer instead? i could get hold of flubendazole liquid which is mainly for cats and dogs also. Can i use it to soak in food and feed?

I can't get metroplex but i have metronidazole tablet which i am using to soak food pellets and feed to the fish.
For Oxytetracycline, i can't get the powdered/tablet form. my vet has the injectable form but we do not know how to apply to fishes. Any substitute for it?

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I read on some sites that baytril can be used also? it contains enrofloxacin. any one used it? Does it work?

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Thought i would update the condition of my fish. It actually looks a little less bloated and its left side body the scales are not sticking out as obvious already. 

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Aliciacyh/media/20170331_231341_024.jpg.html?filters[user]=11940255&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

Today is day 3 of metronidazole. Do i still need to add additional antibiotic or can just wait n see for another few more days? Finger cross that she will continue to improve.

 

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3 hours ago, Golldies said:

just wait n see for another few more days? Finger cross that she will continue to improve.

 

I would do that :) 

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