Dreamsicle sick again with 2 others as well

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

2 hours ago, koko said:

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask if water changes are needed in between adding the drops, or just the regular weekly change of 50%?

[koko 14,361]

1 hour ago, Fish Of Gold said:

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask if water changes are needed in between adding the drops, or just the regular weekly change of 50%?

Nope you don't need to change anything hun. Just add it in after you add your prime  

[koko 14,361]

How you doing? 

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 9:50 AM, koko said:

How you doing? 

The red streaks are gone in the fish and the white dots are gone too, but Dreamsicle still has a puffy eye and raised patch on his back, and Creamsicle is still floaty.

[koko 14,361]

4 hours ago, Fish Of Gold said:

The red streaks are gone in the fish and the white dots are gone too, but Dreamsicle still has a puffy eye and raised patch on his back, and Creamsicle is still floaty.

Can you take some photos for me hun  

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

21 hours ago, koko said:

Can you take some photos for me hun  

 

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

[Arctic Mama 3,638]

Honestly this could be viral.  You've already tried several treatments.

 

Last ditch effort would be to throw the kitchen sink at it - in quarantine you'd be doing waterborne metronidazole, oxytetracycline, and furan-2 for a two weeks course.  All at once. We need a nice warm quarantine (80 degrees if they will tolerate it) and an airstone, to boot. No salt right now, but if additional symptoms pop up we may try some dips too.

 

During that time you nuke the tank.  Sterilize all equipment, including nets and filter hose, airstones, any fish stuff.  Boil or potassium permanganate it.  Toss any filter media that cannot be sterilized.  Do bleach or potassium permanganate dips for all your plants and rocks, and toss or bleach the sand.  

 

Rinse any bleached items very well with prime treated water, then let them air dry until the bleach smells dissipate. Get the system back running and just prepare to do a fish-in cycle when they're done with their treatment.  

 

These two things together should take care of any bacteria, parasite, or fungus. If symptoms remain after all this then what is ailing your fish is viral and there isn't much for it, unfortunately.

 

This is the last resort.

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

Honestly this could be viral.  You've already tried several treatments.

 

Last ditch effort would be to throw the kitchen sink at it - in quarantine you'd be doing waterborne metronidazole, oxytetracycline, and furan-2 for a two weeks course.  All at once. We need a nice warm quarantine (80 degrees if they will tolerate it) and an airstone, to boot. No salt right now, but if additional symptoms pop up we may try some dips too.

 

During that time you nuke the tank.  Sterilize all equipment, including nets and filter hose, airstones, any fish stuff.  Boil or potassium permanganate it.  Toss any filter media that cannot be sterilized.  Do bleach or potassium permanganate dips for all your plants and rocks, and toss or bleach the sand.  

 

Rinse any bleached items very well with prime treated water, then let them air dry until the bleach smells dissipate. Get the system back running and just prepare to do a fish-in cycle when they're done with their treatment.  

 

These two things together should take care of any bacteria, parasite, or fungus. If symptoms remain after all this then what is ailing your fish is viral and there isn't much for it, unfortunately.

 

This is the last resort.

Wow this is a lot of info to try to process. I can find Metro and Furan2 online but was never able to find the oxy stuff online except in medicated fish flake form that I have. I'd have to buy all these meds and that seems like it will be very expensive for 2 weeks treatment. I'm not sure how much I'd even need to buy all together. Not sure what could be safely boiled. Was reading about that potassium stuff and that seems pretty scary saying that it can not be on skin, or breathed in, and not to dispose of used solution down toilet or any household drains etc. How do you get rid of it then? I don't know what or how to sterilize filter media. You can bleach sand? Thought bleach would kill them, always thought household cleaners shouldn't be used in tanks? Seems scary to bleach sand but wouldn't want to use all brand new sand, that is too expensive, unless maybe sandbox sand can be used like my Tropicals have in their tank. I'll have to try to remember how to do a fish in cycle, I know it wasn't easy at all to cycle a tank, a lot of work. These fishies will be the death of me next.

[FishyMandy 6,284]

Bleach is actually quite safe if it's rinsed out well. Rinse in primed water like Taryl said, until the bleachy smell is completely gone, then let it all dry out

I'd boil any ceremic rings or bioballs and replace the sponges.

I know bleaching or using the potassium permangante sounds scary, I was terrified when I first did it but it works really well to kill any nasties and is safe

 

I hope you can get to the bottom of the issues! 

 

[Arctic Mama 3,638]

Oxy is here, and it's not cheap but it lasts a long time:

http://www.angelsplus.com/MedsAntibiotic.htm

 

PP is quite safe but I do like to wear new rubber gloves when dealing with it, just to minimize staining.  As for how to get rid of PP it oxidizes/exhausts harmlessly once it has reacted with organic matter.  When it goes from purple/magenta to brown it's done and you just rinse if away with fresh water.  Even if there is a little residual in the tank it won't hurt a thing at those concentrations.  Very safe stuff.

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

Wow, getting a bit overwhelming..... Anyway I have TONS of questions! Not sure I can afford all of this but I have to wait until all of my bills, rent etc. are paid for first in the beginning of May and I will have 3 big price extra bills due in May so I don't know yet. First of all, how much Metro will I need to complete the 2 week treatment. I was going to buy the 2 pack of Metroplex which is 5g in each tube. The box of Furan comes in 10 pack dose envelopes, not sure how much I'd need to buy, and I have to buy the Oxy from that site. Plus if I get the PP, how much do I need to get? I seen a 3 oz bottle of PP for pretty cheap, or will I need more than that? I also seen the PP in 1 pound size containers too. If I get new sand, I don't remember how many lbs per gallon to add, will a 20 lb bag be enough or not? How do I sterilize the tank? Do I use the bleach or the PP? Do I have to completely drain the tank and take sand out then refill with water and bleach, or PP and let it sit? How do I sterilize the filters themselves, do I run them when the tank is full of the PP or bleach, or soak them separately in a bucket of water? Can I just leave the heater and decorations, plastic plants, rocks, air stones etc. in the tank when it is being sterilized with the PP or bleach or soak them separately in a bucket too. I have more questions but cant remember right now.

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

20 hours ago, Fish Of Gold said:

Wow, getting a bit overwhelming..... Anyway I have TONS of questions! Not sure I can afford all of this but I have to wait until all of my bills, rent etc. are paid for first in the beginning of May and I will have 3 big price extra bills due in May so I don't know yet. First of all, how much Metro will I need to complete the 2 week treatment. I was going to buy the 2 pack of Metroplex which is 5g in each tube. The box of Furan comes in 10 pack dose envelopes, not sure how much I'd need to buy, and I have to buy the Oxy from that site. Plus if I get the PP, how much do I need to get? I seen a 3 oz bottle of PP for pretty cheap, or will I need more than that? I also seen the PP in 1 pound size containers too. If I get new sand, I don't remember how many lbs per gallon to add, will a 20 lb bag be enough or not? How do I sterilize the tank? Do I use the bleach or the PP? Do I have to completely drain the tank and take sand out then refill with water and bleach, or PP and let it sit? How do I sterilize the filters themselves, do I run them when the tank is full of the PP or bleach, or soak them separately in a bucket of water? Can I just leave the heater and decorations, plastic plants, rocks, air stones etc. in the tank when it is being sterilized with the PP or bleach or soak them separately in a bucket too. I have more questions but cant remember right now.

I can order the medications and PP today if I can get help with what amounts of each that I will need for the 2 week treatment period.

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

Today I noticed that Creamsicle is no longer floating at the surface of the water like she has been for weeks. Now she is able to swim to the bottom and cruise along the bottom sifting thru the sand, but she is still upside down though. Because she hasn't been able to get off the surface of the water before, I have been taking her out at feeding times to eat in a shallow food storage container with just enough water added so she is floating just above the bottom so can suck up the food. But maybe now I can leave her in the tank if she can now reach the bottom to search for food. Not sure if this is a good sign or not.

I'd still like to know how much of each med to buy and how much PP to buy as well. I'd really like to get the order out by tomorrow, seeing I missed sending in the orders in time today...I didn't know if I should have reported my post to have my questions answered because it has been over 24 hours but I didn't think I could do that if it wasn't an emergency.

[Arctic Mama 3,638]

Honestly I'm not sure of the volume you're treating. Is this a ten gallon quarantine?  If you're doing water changes every two days I'd buy two tubes of metro to be safe. Two boxes of furan-2, and the oxy is more than sufficient.

For the PP one jug of condy's crystals will do, otherwise you need two of the little squirt bottles to do a few big batches of tank equipment and stuff.  Bleach really will suffice and is cheaper and easier to come by, unless your local Walmart or Ace has it over in the toilet and plumbing/water filtration section:

https://m.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=107120196&KPID=24637029&cid=CAPLA:G:Shopping_-_Water_Softeners_-_Mobile&pla=pla_24637029&k_clickid=0837482c-a3e6-4218-b38c-4d6c8dbf54ec

 

The slow responses are because weekdays kind of suck for me. I'm hardly on the site with life and medical stuff going on but I am trying to check in on you once daily, at least.  However I homeschool until about 4 pm PST and can't always surf my phone while teaching, for obvious reasons   I haven't forgotten you.

 

For all the sterilization questions I recommend searching for past threads where tank nuking is mentioned.  I do a lot of bleaching in the tub and run water through my python and such to clean it out, along with the hoses.  You just kind of figure it out for your setup, but every surface needs to be sterilized if it gets wet or has been in contact with tank water and doesn't fully and completely dry out.

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

34 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Honestly I'm not sure of the volume you're treating. Is this a ten gallon quarantine?  If you're doing water changes every two days I'd buy two tubes of metro to be safe. Two boxes of furan-2, and the oxy is more than sufficient.

For the PP one jug of condy's crystals will do, otherwise you need two of the little squirt bottles to do a few big batches of tank equipment and stuff.  Bleach really will suffice and is cheaper and easier to come by, unless your local Walmart or Ace has it over in the toilet and plumbing/water filtration section:

https://m.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=107120196&KPID=24637029&cid=CAPLA:G:Shopping_-_Water_Softeners_-_Mobile&pla=pla_24637029&k_clickid=0837482c-a3e6-4218-b38c-4d6c8dbf54ec

 

The slow responses are because weekdays kind of suck for me. I'm hardly on the site with life and medical stuff going on but I am trying to check in on you once daily, at least.  However I homeschool until about 4 pm PST and can't always surf my phone while teaching, for obvious reasons   I haven't forgotten you.

 

For all the sterilization questions I recommend searching for past threads where tank nuking is mentioned.  I do a lot of bleaching in the tub and run water through my python and such to clean it out, along with the hoses.  You just kind of figure it out for your setup, but every surface needs to be sterilized if it gets wet or has been in contact with tank water and doesn't fully and completely dry out.

Yes the QT tank is 10 gallons. OK I'll put in an order for the meds and just use bleach to sanitize/disinfect the fish equipment. I'll go ahead and try to look up nuking the tank/equipment info in past threads.

Thanks again for your help. I'll check back in after the stuff arrives in the mail.

[Arctic Mama 3,638]

Sounds good!  And if money is a big issue and you're not totally out of metro you could likely make it with just one tube, or alternately use two boxes of API General Cure, which sometimes runs less than Seachem Metroplex.  It does have praziquantel too but that won't hurt anything.  I find for a two week course one tube is cutting it close, if I recall, but if you have a little on hand I think it will work.

 

If the search function doesn't yield strong results please make a new thread in the genera section on tank sterilizing/nuking and you should get a good response

Edited May 2, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

Another update on Creamsicle: She slept in the corner of the tank still able to sit on the sand, although upside down. Then after a water change today I noticed her starting to try to swim upright, she can for a few seconds but kind of twists and whirls in a circle before catching her balance then she can be upright for a minute or two if she stops moving and looks almost normal floating upright in the middle column of water with Dreamsicle and Popsicle until she tries to swim again and gets topsy turvy whirling around again.

Almost seems like she is getting better, but I don't want to get my hopes up because Tricycle was starting to do so much better and acting almost like normal again when he died. Creamsicle's belly sores are gone now since she can stay under water now without floating belly up and exposing her belly to the air.

Update on Dreamsicle: He still has those puffy areas around his one eye and the raised bumpy area near his top fin. A few days ago the bumpy area looked like it had little tiny red sore dots on and I added 8 CS drops to the water and now today the red dots on the bumpy area are gone.

[Arctic Mama 3,638]

Until they start meds I'm honestly not expecting any improvement.  Until you can begin just or the water as clean as possible and fingers crossed!

[koko 14,361]

Any updates hun? 

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

4 hours ago, koko said:

Any updates hun? 

Well, I'm still waiting for the meds to arrive in the mail. It is estimated to arrive by the 9th to the 10th of May. The updates are that Dreamsicle is still the same with is eye and bumpy patch, Popsicle has a little bit of red veining in his tail, and that Creamsicle is back to floating upside down on the surface of the water. She was starting to do so well for several days with staying upright and able to swim to the bottom to sift thru the sand and sleep in her usual spot in the corner by the bubble stone and plants. Now just overnight she is back to surface floating upside down and when she tries to swim down at feeding times she can only get down like an inch then pops back up to the surface. I haven't been feeding them anything new, just the same foods in the same amounts. But it seems like she started to get better those few days after I fed them a treat of cook peas 2 days before that, so I'm not sure if that is a coincidence or not. I fed her a cooked pea today to see what happens with that.

 

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

Got the rest of the meds late today from UPS. I was going to clean out the QT tank that is still full of water from when Tricycle was in it, but I hurt my back yesterday, it went out so I couldn't clean the QT tank. I'll see if I can do it tomorrow. But what I have is a 3 box set of Furan 2, and 2 tubes of MetroPlex, and a 100 gram jar of Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride.

I was just reading the directions for the Oxy and it says 1/4 tsp per 40 gallons, so what measurement would that be for a 10 gallon tank?

[Arctic Mama 3,638]

The oxy would be 1/16 of a teaspoon.  If you have a sensitive kitchen scale we could try weighing it too. I just went out and bought a set of spice spoons, which include the pinch spoon (1/4 of a 1/4 teaspoon aka a 1/16 of a teaspoon).

https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Stainless-Measuring-Spoons-smidgen/dp/B0009X1P9S

 

Follow what I posted earlier, let me know if you have any questions:

In the quarantine you'd be doing waterborne metronidazole, oxytetracycline, and furan-2 for a two weeks course.  All at once. We need a nice warm quarantine (80 degrees if they will tolerate it) and an airstone, to boot. No salt right now, but if additional symptoms pop up we may try some dips too.

 

Add the medicine on day one, dose prime on day two, 100% water change and redose all meds on day three, prime on day four, etc until you hit the fifteenth day of treatment.

 

We will evaluate from there, bit you should see improvement by four to five days into it.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Fish Of Gold 2,298]

14 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

The oxy would be 1/16 of a teaspoon.  If you have a sensitive kitchen scale we could try weighing it too. I just went out and bought a set of spice spoons, which include the pinch spoon (1/4 of a 1/4 teaspoon aka a 1/16 of a teaspoon).

https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Stainless-Measuring-Spoons-smidgen/dp/B0009X1P9S

 

Follow what I posted earlier, let me know if you have any questions:

In the quarantine you'd be doing waterborne metronidazole, oxytetracycline, and furan-2 for a two weeks course.  All at once. We need a nice warm quarantine (80 degrees if they will tolerate it) and an airstone, to boot. No salt right now, but if additional symptoms pop up we may try some dips too.

 

Add the medicine on day one, dose prime on day two, 100% water change and redose all meds on day three, prime on day four, etc until you hit the fifteenth day of treatment.

 

We will evaluate from there, bit you should see improvement by four to five days into it.

I do have a digital kitchen type scale that I use to weigh the goldfish, What weight would 1/16 of a teaspoon be? When I dose the prime on non WC days, do I add it as 2 drops per gallon like the instructions say like when doing an actual WC? I did order some of those measuring spoons last night, they estimate them to arrive on May 16th.