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Buttercup

Help with sick baby oranda.

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Hi! New to the forum and to goldies. I've kept tropical fish for years. I started my goldfish tank about 2 months ago with a fishless cycle. After around 3 weeks using seeded media the tank was fully cycled. Began adding goldies a week later to make sure parameters were steady. I absolutely adore these fish! I purchased my oranda from Petsmart on a day they were getting their fish order in, so he never went in their tanks. I brought him home, acclimated him and he seemed so healthy. He was active and eating well. A few days later he was bottom sitting, so I immediately checked parameters. Everything was fine, but I did a 50% water change just to be on the safe side. I also fed him some peas. He perked up, but just didn't seem to be himself. He has stopped bottom sitting now, but he has also stopped eating. He will pursue food, but stops short of consuming anything. He also has the dreaded white stringy poop. So far he's had 3 epsom salt baths because initially I suspected constipation. I panicked and dosed API General Cure, which contains Metro and Praziquentel. The white stringy poop started about 2 days ago. He is out and about in the tank, but like I said, no longer eating. The last thing he ate was a bite of pea. Any help would be appreciated! 

I have prazi and metro medicated flakes on the way, but won't be here for a few days. 

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)=0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)=0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)=~10
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)=0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)=0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)=0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) pH=7.6, KH=5, GH=?
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) pH=6.6, KH=5, GH=can't get GH reading for some reason. Water sample in test tube never turns orange. 
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? =API liquid test kit
      • * Water temperature? = 71
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) = 40 gallon breeder. and how long has it been running? =1 month. Completely cycled/fishless cycle. 
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?=two 2217 Eheim Classic canister filters. 
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?= 50% 1x wk. 
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 4 days ago, 50%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 small fantails, ~1.5 inch. 1 small moor, 1 small oranda. 
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime. Occasional Excel dose for plants. 
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? =Saki-Hikari Fancy Goldfish pellets, 1x daily. Repashy Soilent Green 1x daily. Occasional peas, mysis shrimp at treat 1 or 2x per wk. Romaine lettuce clipped in tank. 
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? =All are new, from different sources. 
  • * Any medications added to the tank? =2 doses of API general cure. 
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Three 20 minute epsom salt baths in half gallon of tank water. Added just under tbs of epsom salt. Treated tank with API General Cure. 
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?=No outward signs at all other than white stringy poop. 
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Noticed the oranda bottom sitting 4 days ago, dosed general cure and began epsom salt baths. 

 

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Welcome to Kokos and I hope your Oranda feels better.

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I'm sorry, but time is of the essence here. I noticed more stringy white poo last night. Fish is still in the water column and doesn't seem to have any issues swimming, but he continues to seem uninterested in eating. It's been a couple of days since the API General Cure treatment, should I treat with something else? The medicated flakes that are on the way aren't going to help much if he won't eat. 

Also, for some reason I can't seem to get a GH reading with the API test kit. It says to add drops until the liquid turns from orange to green, but as I add drops I never see an orange color to begin with, it always looks like a yellowish shade. My KH is only 5. Can my goldfish thrive in that area? 

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Welcome to Kokos.  Sorry that you start here with a sick fish. Please read our guidelines for healthy goldfish.

 

You do have a problem with KH, since you have a large difference between the tap water pH and the tank water pH.  This difference can stress fish when you do a 50% water change.  Goldfish can tolerate a very wide range of pH, but they don't handle abrupt pH changes well at all.  

 

I have a high KH and consistent pH,  so I have no personal experience with this, but you can raise KH by adding baking soda to your tap water.  I suggest you fill a 5 gallon bucket with tap water, add Prime, and read the pH.  Then add 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda give it a few minutes to dissolve and disperse, and read the pH again.  It should read at least a little higher.  Continue to add baking soda, recording how much you added and the resulting pH until you get to the tank pH.  Then you can use this water for a water change.  You should be able to add the total amount of baking soda to a bucket of water and get the same pH.

 

How long did you treat with General Cure?  You should not do short treatments with antibiotics.  These select for resistant bacterial.  

 

You should remove the sick fish to a 10 gallon tank/tub so you can treat without medicating healthy fish.  Please resume treatment with General Cure until you get metronidazole.  I don't know what medications you have ordered.

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I dosed the recommended amount of General Cure, which took over 4 days. The oranda is more active now and seems ok, but he's still not eating. I'll take your advice about pH. Since we switched to well water I've noticed that directly out of the tap it reads 6.6, but after sitting all night in a bucket it reads around 7ish. After adding to the tank it eventually reads 7.6 consistently. I've been concerned about big water changes, but after doing a 50% today, all the fish seem fine and are eating well except the oranda. I haven't ordered any more meds to dose the tank, only medicated flakes with metro and praziquenten. 

Thanks for your help. 

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Welcome to Kokos.  Sorry that you start here with a sick fish. Please read our guidelines for healthy goldfish.

 

How long did you treat with General Cure?  You should not do short treatments with antibiotics.  These select for resistant bacterial.  

 

You should remove the sick fish to a 10 gallon tank/tub so you can treat without medicating healthy fish.  Please resume treatment with General Cure until you get metronidazole.  I don't know what medications you have ordered.

 

 

I read your guidelines and I am aware of the space that goldfish require. I am making room for a 75g now. As I mentioned, I dosed General Cure according to the instructions, so I'm unaware if the duration of the treatment is "short." I took the time to complete the required questionnaire here in the hopes that I would get experienced advice on my next course of action. I mentioned in my original post that I have only ordered medicated flakes. You do not know what medications I have ordered because I haven't ordered any other than flakes, which is why I asked the question...what do I need to do next? 

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I'm sorry that I haven't been able to provide the experienced advice you need.  Perhaps someone else can help you.  

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How is the fish doing?  

 

The white stringy poop may be stress related (fluctuating pH, new environment, etc) or perhaps because of his decreased appetite.  Has he eaten anything since the pea?  If not, I'd try the shrimp or frozen bloodworms.  Is he simply not interested in eating (doesn't attempt to eat when food is present) or does he try to eat then spits it out?  

 

If I had a fish that was swimming around just fine but not eating, I'd treat the tank with praziquantel (either in powdered form or PraziPro).

 

Also, please keep in mind that all of us on the moderating team are volunteers.  We are typically helping several people at once so if we ask for information already given, it's because we don't remember every bit of information posted and may not have the time to go back and look for the answer (at least that is the case with me).  Thanks for your understanding.

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He was going after food several days ago and spitting it out, now he doesn't even go for it. I just don't understand, he's more active now, but has no interest in food at all. I fed frozen mysis shrimp yesterday and he didn't want it. I fed Repashy and peas this morning and he didn't go for it at all. The prazi flakes are arriving today, but like I said before, if he won't eat they won't help. Praziquentel is in General Cure as well as Metro. There does seem to be improvement since the treatment. My main questions are...since I just finished a treatment with General Care, should I treat again? Should I wait? Is there something that might entice him to eat? I'm getting bloodworms today, I'll see if those might spark his interest. 

Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate your response. 

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I'm sorry that I haven't been able to provide the experienced advice you need.  Perhaps someone else can help you.  

I reread my post and it definitely reflects my frustration. Please accept my apology for coming across so rudely. I appreciate what you and all the volunteers do on this website to help folks that really care about their fish and this hobby. 

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Spitting out food is an indicator of flukes.  I would definitely treat with praziquantel ASAP.  It is not a problem to treat with prazi so soon after the General Cure.  It sounds like the General Cure was helpful but it usually takes a good 2-3 rounds of prazi to knock out flukes.  I would treat in the main tank as if one fish has them, they all probably do.  The others may not be as sensitive to them or aren't carrying as heavy a load . . . 

 

Garlic may help entice him to eat.  :D  

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Spitting out food is an indicator of flukes.  I would definitely treat with praziquantel ASAP.  It is not a problem to treat with prazi so soon after the General Cure.  It sounds like the General Cure was helpful but it usually takes a good 2-3 rounds of prazi to knock out flukes.  I would treat in the main tank as if one fish has them, they all probably do.  The others may not be as sensitive to them or aren't carrying as heavy a load . . . 

 

Garlic may help entice him to eat.   :D

Thank you!! By the way...precious pup!

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Wow...got home from work to find my white baby oranda looking a little bloated and when I looked closer her scales are sticking out a little. This fish is swimming like normal and eating. I just fed prazi flakes that arrived today, plus I gave her an epsom salt bath along with dosing the tank with prazipro. What the heck?? Maybe I need a different med? She isn't acting sick at all.

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Why is your gh zero?  Do you have a water softener or is your area known for extremely soft water?

 

Pictures would probably be useful too.

 

Good luck.

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Put the fish in a ~ ten gallon hospital tank/tub.  Add 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salt.  Don't do any more dips.  We will keep the fish in this concentration (1/2 t/ 10 gallons) of epsom until  recovery.   Add General Cure to the water until the Metro food arrives.  You can feed the prazi flakes if she will eat them.

 

You need one more medication.  You can use the oxytracycline flakes here or get oxytetracycline powder.  This antibiotic complements metronidazole to treat a wide range of bacterial infections.  Medicated food works better than treated water if the sick fish will eat.  

 

I suggest you have metronidazole and oxytetracycline powder in your fishy medicine chest.  You can store these indefinitely and won't have to do emergency orders.

 

So, in summary, we want the fish in a low concentration of epsom salt and receiving prazi, metro, and oxytetracycline either as food or in the water.  This treatment should continue for a minimum of two weeks, even if the fish appears to have recovered, and up to one month.  

Edited by shakaho

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Why is your gh zero? Do you have a water softener or is your area known for extremely soft water?

Pictures would probably be useful too.

Good luck.

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Why is your gh zero?  Do you have a water softener or is your area known for extremely soft water?

 

Pictures would probably be useful too.

 

Good luck.

I have no idea. The water report from the company that drilled the well indicated the pH as 7.6. When I test my tank water the results are always 7.6. When I test the water out of the tap, it is always 6.6. When it sits out in a bucket overnight it reads 7ish. I have the API GH test kit, but the color never turns orange. I'll get pics this afternoon.

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Put the fish in a ~ ten gallon hospital tank/tub.  Add 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salt.  Don't do any more dips.  We will keep the fish in this concentration (1/2 t/ 10 gallons) of epsom until  recovery.   Add General Cure to the water until the Metro food arrives.  You can feed the prazi flakes if she will eat them.

 

You need one more medication.  You can use the oxytracycline flakes here or get oxytetracycline powder.  This antibiotic complements metronidazole to treat a wide range of bacterial infections.  Medicated food works better than treated water if the sick fish will eat.  

 

I suggest you have metronidazole and oxytetracycline powder in your fishy medicine chest.  You can store these indefinitely and won't have to do emergency orders.

 

So, in summary, we want the fish in a low concentration of epsom salt and receiving prazi, metro, and oxytetracycline either as food or in the water.  This treatment should continue for a minimum of two weeks, even if the fish appears to have recovered, and up to one month.  

Ok, thanks so much. Right after work I'll get her set up. She ate the prazi flakes this morning before I left. The oranda is still out and about, but won't eat. He did act a little more interested though, he actually went for a piece, just didn't follow through. 

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Oxytetracycline flakes are on the way, should be here Friday.

Seachem metroplex should be here tomorrow.

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Edited by Buttercup

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Not to make things more complicated but....with the pH fluctuation between my tap and tank, should I fill up the qt with some tank water and tap water to minimize stress? Keep in mind the tank has several meds in it at the moment. Not sure if I should start the qt process with new water or not. If only I'd thought of setting out my 5g buckets with tap water last night! I could always do the baking soda in the qt after I fill if needed.

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What meds are in the tank at the moment?  Which fish are you moving to the QT tank?

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General Cure and PraziPro. I was planning to move the white oranda that has started to pinecone to the qt tank. He's still eating. The other oranda hasn't pineconed, nor are there any outward signs of illness. He just won't eat. We're treating him for flukes.

This is getting crazy now. Wonder if I should treat the whole tank? I have 2 more babies that seem perfectly fine though.

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Edited by Buttercup

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I'm trying to send pics but I can't through Tapatalk.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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303999763a4800a6787726b63835355b.jpg

It let me send a small image.

Sorry it's blurry, she's so active.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Buttercup

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Ok, 10 gallon hospital tank is up and running. I dosed prime. I put an AquaClear 20 that I had in my fish stuff in and an air stone. Nothing in the media basket but filter floss, but I thought the filter would help with aeration. I dosed 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salt. The metro and oxytetracycline won't be here until tomorrow unfortunately, plus the ph and temp is too low, so I can't move her over tonight. I put a small heater in. Not sure what I should keep the temp. I hope tomorrow isn't too late for her. At least she is still getting the meds that are in the main tank. She ate more prazi flakes again tonight.

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Edited by Buttercup

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