Help! part 2

[titch 104]

2 minutes ago, koko said:

We are going to do it like we did last time hun but for a month

 

Ok. Last time I made a batch up & kept it in the fridge, replacing what I took out with that. But I knew what volume of water I was going to be changing each time & how often, so I could calculate it all. 

This time I don't, right? Because of the fish-in cycle I could be changing X litres one day and Y litres another, and not at regular intervals.

So can I just redose with fresh FS each time, replacing what I've removed?

[koko 14,340]

15 minutes ago, titch said:

Ok. Last time I made a batch up & kept it in the fridge, replacing what I took out with that. But I knew what volume of water I was going to be changing each time & how often, so I could calculate it all. 

This time I don't, right? Because of the fish-in cycle I could be changing X litres one day and Y litres another, and not at regular intervals.

So can I just redose with fresh FS each time, replacing what I've removed?

Let me double check with Sharon  

[titch 104]

13 minutes ago, koko said:

Let me double check with Sharon  

Ok, thanks. 

Can I ask, do you genuinely think treating with FS for a month will do it?

If it doesn't and I need to try Acriflavine, will we be treating the whole tank or putting them both in QT? 

Reason I ask is, if we're going to treat the tank, won't it just kill my cycle & we'll be starting all over again with a fish-in cycle?

Even if we QT them for treatment, I'll still need to nuke my tank won't I, as it'll be contaminated after housing them for a month?

By which time, I'll be going on holiday and won't be able to monitor them for cycling.

Just thinking out loud...

[koko 14,340]

you have metro?

If we did the Acriflavine we would suggest doing Dips?

[koko 14,340]

2 hours ago, titch said:

Ok, thanks. 

Can I ask, do you genuinely think treating with FS for a month will do it?

It should

 

2 hours ago, titch said:

If it doesn't and I need to try Acriflavine, will we be treating the whole tank or putting them both in QT? 

Dips

2 hours ago, titch said:

Reason I ask is, if we're going to treat the tank, won't it just kill my cycle & we'll be starting all over again with a fish-in cycle?

Even if we QT them for treatment, I'll still need to nuke my tank won't I, as it'll be contaminated after housing them for a month?

By which time, I'll be going on holiday and won't be able to monitor them for cycling.

Just thinking out loud...

If we kill the old filter that should kill a lot of it off and the Prazi should take care of the rest. Thats why we clean everything even your Python if you have one... Everything that has touched your other old tank  

[titch 104]

1 minute ago, koko said:

It should

 

Dips

If we kill the old filter that should kill a lot of it off and the Prazi should take care of the rest. Thats why we clean everything even your Python if you have one... Everything that has touched your other old tank  

Thanks for clarifying. 

I'm going to buy all new sundries (nets, suction cups, etc) for the new tank. Python doesn't go near tank, I use the short hose that came with the filter for WC. Got a new one with the new filter so I'll chuck the old one.

Fingers crossed there shouldn't be anything old used on the new - think I've thought of everything. 

Has Sharon confirmed ref redosing the FS?

[koko 14,340]

1 minute ago, titch said:

Thanks for clarifying. 

 

Has Sharon confirmed ref redosing the FS?

Anytime hun. Not yes she asked me if you have Metro  

[titch 104]

3 minutes ago, koko said:

Anytime hun. Not yes she asked me if you have Metro  

I do but nowhere near enough to treat the monster tank!

Delivery is about 3 weeks from the US so not likely to have any in time to run alongside the FS I'm afraid.

It'll cost a lot to treat that volume too!! 

[koko 14,340]

12 minutes ago, titch said:

I do but nowhere near enough to treat the monster tank!

Delivery is about 3 weeks from the US so not likely to have any in time to run alongside the FS I'm afraid.

It'll cost a lot to treat that volume too!! 

OK hun I will let her know...  

[shakaho 6,312]

Let's treat with FS and worry about the next step after two weeks.  I think you have had a less than ideal treatment before because you made a stock solution of fluke solve for ease of dosing -- actually a very sensible procedure.  We have some reasons to believe that praziquantel degrades after about 4 days in aqueous solution.  We haven't been able to confirm whether or not this is true since manufacturers consider this proprietary information.  If it is true, your stock solution may have deteriorated during the treatment period. So you should figure out a way to measure out the appropriate dose of FS each time you need to add it.  I agree :  

i suggest you hold off on nuking anything until after you get back from the trip. If you leave a tank that hasn't completed cycling while you go on holiday you risk coming back to dead fish.   Praziquantel in the tank water will kill flukes in the water as well as flukes on the fish.  If a full month of FS doesn't  handle the problem we can look at more drastic solutions after you get back.  

[titch 104]

15 hours ago, shakaho said:

Let's treat with FS and worry about the next step after two weeks.  I think you have had a less than ideal treatment before because you made a stock solution of fluke solve for ease of dosing -- actually a very sensible procedure.  We have some reasons to believe that praziquantel degrades after about 4 days in aqueous solution.  We haven't been able to confirm whether or not this is true since manufacturers consider this proprietary information.  If it is true, your stock solution may have deteriorated during the treatment period. So you should figure out a way to measure out the appropriate dose of FS each time you need to add it.  I agree :  

i suggest you hold off on nuking anything until after you get back from the trip. If you leave a tank that hasn't completed cycling while you go on holiday you risk coming back to dead fish.   Praziquantel in the tank water will kill flukes in the water as well as flukes on the fish.  If a full month of FS doesn't  handle the problem we can look at more drastic solutions after you get back.  

No real problem measuring out 'fresh' FS each time - that I can do. But I'm only replacing what I've removed with each WC, right? That is to say 50% WC = redose with 50% of the original dose of FS?

Ref holding back on nuking, do you mean you want me to transfer fish & filter to the new tank as is? No replacement media etc? Perhaps that will also transfer the cycle also. Fingers crossed?

[shakaho 6,312]

On 5/14/2017 at 10:44 AM, titch said:

Tank is up & running with new FX6 (been going approx 18hrs), airstone, layer of Tahitian Moon sand, & Prime added. Currently got a couple of heaters on the go raising the temp (used water from outside tap to fill, so pretty chilly). Now at 19.5* (other tank at 24.5*).

What do you want me to do?

Is this still your situation?  What do you have in theFX6?  Anything old? First, get the sand out of the tank.  When your fish have completed treatment and have perfect health, you can replace it.

If your filter contains new mechanical filtration and has new or disinfected tubing, rinse your old cycled biomedium in several changes of dechlorinated water, and add it to the filter.  Add FS to the tank and move your fish in.  

On 5/14/2017 at 11:30 AM, titch said:

And how do I redose the FS? Because of the fish-in cycle, I expect I'll be doing a fair few WC. Should I just replace what I've taken out each time with 'fresh' FS (I.e. Not from a pre-made batch)? Is it possible to overdose FS?

It depends on the frequency of your changes.  If you change 50% daily, just dose the new water, since these old prazi should still be active..  If you change 50% every three days, dose FS for the full tank volume.  

I believe 10X the recommended concentration of prazi is the maximum safe level.  I don't know what else might be in FS and how much you could overdose that.

Edited May 15, 2017 by shakaho

[titch 104]

1 hour ago, shakaho said:

Is this still your situation?  What do you have in theFX6?  Anything old? First, get the sand out of the tank.  When your fish have completed treatment and have perfect health, you can replace it.

If your filter contains new mechanical filtration and has new or disinfected tubing, rinse your old cycled biomedium in several changes of dechlorinated water, and add it to the filter.  Add FS to the tank and move your fish in.  

It depends on the frequency of your changes.  If you change 50% daily, just dose the new water, since these old prazi should still be active..  If you change 50% every three days, dose FS for the full tank volume.  

I believe 10X the recommended concentration of prazi is the maximum safe level.  I don't know what else might be in FS and how much you could overdose that.

Ok, I understand the FS dosing. Just need to know how often I should carry out WC & how much I should change.

With regards to the sand, this isn't really an option I'm afraid. Even if I could remove it all, I have no way of drying it out for future use nor anywhere to keep it. I have 100lbs in total which cost me a pretty penny, so understandably very reluctant to dispose of it.

Current situation is this...

New tank - 600 litres of fresh, primed water, 1" layer of sand, airstone & brand new FX6 filter running (brand new in every way - media, hoses, etc), now at 24.5*, running since late Saturday evening.

Existing 'old' tank - FX6 filter running with original media since December.

So 2 FX6 filters in total - one new one on new tank, one old one still running on existing tank (where the fish are). It's the intention to have both filters running on the new tank.

I ordered new media for the old filter yesterday, as I was expecting to nuke it & start again with fresh sponges, bio balls & ceramic rings. Should arrive tomorrow.

Edited May 15, 2017 by titch

[titch 104]

Just for info...

Started the FS treatment on the new tank on Saturday 20th May, after adding the 2nd of the 2 FX6 filters and both fish (since then of course, Winston has been moved to QT, so just Piggy remains in the big tank).

Since then I've redosed the full amount 4 times, 5th dose will be tonight following WC. I've been changing 200 litres with each WC - approx. 1/3 of the total volume.

Schedule so far...

• Day 1 - WC & full dose FS
• Day 4 - WC & fulle dose FS
• Day 7 - WC & full dose FS
• Day 10 - WC & full dose FS
• Day 13 (today) - WC & full dose FS to be carried out later

Two more weeks to go for a full months course.

Will take water parameters later before the WC, but last ones taken on day 10 (29-May) read;

Ammonia: 0 ppm (mg/L)
Nitrite: 0 ppm (mg/L)
Nitrate: 10 ppm (mg/L)
PH: 8.2