Walstad + Goldfish, Gravel or Sand?

[EvilVegan]

Alright, as soon as petsmart locates the aquarium I ordered and sends it to me, I will be setting my new heavily planted aquarium.  

 

125 gallon, 75 gallon sump/refugium (using the current tank and filter media).  I know a refugium is overkill, but I'm going to see what happens when I run alternating light cycles.

 

Anyway, the question is, with Walstad method, you're only supposed to have a thin layer of sand or a thicker layer of gravel.  I like the look of sand more than gravel, but I'm more concerned with uprooting and revealing the soil layer.  It seems like a thicker layer of gravel would be better for these things, but is a thicker layer of pool filter sand (say an inch or 1.5 inches) tooooo thick for Walstad?

 

 

[shakaho]

An inch of sand should work fine.  While the fish forage in the sand they shouldn't dig very deep, since the edibles will typically lie on the surface.  How deep will you make the soil?  

[EvilVegan]

I was gonna do between .75 and 1 inch on the soil, depending on what I'm putting over it...  

Edited December 4, 2016 by EvilVegan

[EvilVegan]

So as far as stocking goes, I bought a crazy amount of plants:

 

Micro Sword

Anubias Nana 

Java Fern

Undulata Cryptocoryne

Water Sprite

Hornwort 

Cabomba 

Ludwigia, Broad

Madagascar Lace

Wisteria

 

And I already have a bunch of anacharis and several swords and anubias in my current tank.

 

I'm putting all of this in a ~200 gallon setup and expecting much of it to be eaten; but what should I aim at for stocking?  It's like ~60 plants total.  

 

I want a real jungle feel.

 

I currently have 4 fancies, but it seems like too much plant matter for 4 fancies.   I was wanting to get some bristlenose plecos and maybe a loach or two or three and some nerites.  And then stock to Walstad levels with more fancies, but I don't know the ratio of plant to fancy goldfish.  

[shakaho]

How can you have too much plant material for the fish?  I have seen many people set up Walstad tanks for goldfish.  I've heard of one that lasted for a year.  Four goldfish sounds great.  If the tank does well for 6 months, you can consider adding more fish -- goldfish, I hope, and only one at a time..

 

Do you have Walstad's book?  If not, get it.  Second-hand information won't substitute.  

[EvilVegan]

When you say it lasted for a year, do you mean something bad happened to the fish or that the plants got ate?

 

I'm going to have multiple tanks in one water column so they can't get all of them.  My current tank has been going a year or more and it is pretty well planted.  They nip the anubias and uprooted everything except the anubias and anacharis and a couple swords...

 

I meant too many plants for the bioload without needing supplemental nutrients.  I'm planning on getting the Walstad book.

Edited December 5, 2016 by EvilVegan

[shakaho]

In that particular case, after many struggles -- including sick fish -- and adaptations, she gave up on goldfish.

 

If you study Walstad's book, you will know a lot more about aquatic ecosystems than the vast majority of aquarists.  She actually gives scientific references for what she says.

 

Four goldfish can feed a lot of plants.  You shouldn't need any supplements. The typical Walstad tank has a large number of little fish that altogether probably wouldn't produce as much fertilizer as one goldfish.  

 

Would you describe your multiple tanks in one water column?  I'm curious.

[Daniel]

Very jealous you got a lace plant. It's a bit of a shame they're so mass produced in the US, here and in parts of Europe you could sell it for a pretty penny.

If you go hunting, there's an updated Walstad method floating around (I think it's on the Planted Tank Forum, but might be mistaken). Essentially it's the same as the book, but she changed her filter/water change stance after suffering widespread livestock losses.

Edited December 6, 2016 by dan in aus

[Andrew Goldfish]

I would also recommend reading Walstad’s book.

 

Based on my experience keeping three comet goldfish in a dirt planted tank for two and a half years I would recommend full size amazon swords, the bigger the better.  It took them more than a year, but eventually my growing fish pulled up or ate everything else I had planted.

 

My Java ferns have done well because they were tried to driftwood or superglued to rocks.

 

At some point I might try anubias again, but I would attach them all securely to a structure.

 

I think the key factor for the variation on the Walstad method I’ve been doing has been the constant growth of the floating plants: frogbit, water lettuce and some surviving water sprite.  I still cull out a cup of them every week or so.

 

Looking forward to seeing your updates.