Oh gawd, dropsy

[Butterfly 485]

My black Thai oranda looks HORRIBLE!!!

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrate level(Tank) 20-40

* Ammonia Level(Tap) 0.5 (recent water main break in adjacent township and so some safe but elevated organics in water I am told)

* Nitrite Level(Tap) 0

* Nitrate level(Tap) 5-10

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.0

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

* Water temperature? 80 (has gone up and down between 70-80 in last week)

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55g, 8 months

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 canisters SunSun 302 (264gph with matrix, sponge and Purigen); Odyssea CFS 330 ( all sponge, 143 gph flow/330gph pump) attached to an 8w UV filter.

* How often do you change the water and how much? 90% every week

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 5 days, 90%

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 3. 6"Thai oranda, 4" ranchu, 4" Thai oranda. SL.

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, Replenish (water softener)

* What do you feed your fish and how often? 1-2x per day Repashy, NLS Thera A soaked in Vita Chem or blood worms. Had gotten large amounts of duckweed all summer

* Any new fish added to tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? No

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Sick TO and ranchu from ECR. No major medications other than prazi, last about 6 weeks ago. Large TO an import who I have had for over a year, never I'll other than occasional upside down floating when overfed, I still basically bombed her with prophy tx prior to adding to the other 2.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Last few days this fish has been hanging up towards the top of the tank near the spray bar. I thought was odd but was otherwise interacting normally with me me and other fish even when I wasn't right near the tank. Eating fine. Was normal yesterday pm (I had been watching more closely since I thought he'd been acting weird). Tonight got home late and BOOM full blown dropsy. Wow! Still acting just fine. Eating, swimming happily along.

Put in 10g QT with bubbler and 0.5t epsom salt and some metronidazole just in case. Not happy with the baseline ammonia in the tap at the moment. I have a sponge filter that is prob at least partially cycled (had in garage tank with some duckweed in trying to grow over winter).

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[Butterfly 485]

Fish

Tank water

Tap water

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[Flipper 13,057]

I'm sorry!

I hope you fish heals quickly

I have ammonia in my tap too and WTH! why?!

Edit (that was just a frustrated rhetorical question?)

Edited October 20, 2016 by Flipper

[Butterfly 485]

The most unstable parameter has been the temperature. It was hot then cold then hot again here in the last few weeks and the tank has bounced around between 70-80f in that time. The tank is in a corner near between some windows we often leave open.

Lastly, the other fish are fine. Tank is bare bottom. The only addition was a piece of sponge filter I threw in to colonize with a little B.B. to help another tank. I was used previously but I had soaked it in a dark purple solution of potassium permanganate for 12 hrs prior to putting it in to be safe. I honestly don't remember when I put it in but it was relatively recently.

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[Butterfly 485]

I'm sorry!

I hope you fish heals quickly

I have ammonia in my tap too and WTH! why?!

Edit (that was just a frustrated rhetorical question?)

Yes. I am told that our water supplier suggested that the boroughs flush their systems after the water main break but mine only half did so our water tastes like dirt. I think my fish tank water would taste better (but I am not actually brave enough to test).

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[Butterfly 485]

Sorry for typos. I'm bad enough with a keyboard and even worse on a phone.

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[Flipper 13,057]

I'm sorry!

I hope you fish heals quickly

I have ammonia in my tap too and WTH! why?!

Edit (that was just a frustrated rhetorical question?)

Yes. I am told that our water supplier suggested that the boroughs flush their systems after the water main break but mine only half did so our water tastes like dirt. I think my fish tank water would taste better (but I am not actually brave enough to test).

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Gross! i would be that brave either after seeing what comes out of them

Sorry for typos. I'm bad enough with a keyboard and even worse on a phone.

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No worries!

[Butterfly 485]

Here are some more side pictures. Not so great through tub but I don't see anything other than the lifted scales. Even his wen cheeks look swollen.

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[mjfromga 1,785]

Gosh. Poor guy. Worst dropsy I've seen on here. Sad

I have that ammonia too in the tap BTW

[Butterfly 485]

Gosh. Poor guy. Worst dropsy I've seen on here. Sad

I have that ammonia too in the tap BTW

I know! It is no joke. Not subtle.

My ammonia is usually 0. It sucks for a QT and is generally gross too.

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Edited October 20, 2016 by Butterfly

[Butterfly 485]

I have:

Metronidazole

Kanaplex

Neomycin

Rid-ich plus (formalin malachite green)

Furan 2

API fungus cure (acriflavine/Victoria green B)

Methylene blue

Potassium permanganate

Prazi powder

Tetra parasite guard (combo prazi/metro/diflubenzurone/acriflavine)

[Butterfly 485]

Edited October 20, 2016 by Butterfly

[Butterfly 485]

Also did a 80% change on the main tank just in case for the other fish.

[Arctic Mama 3,651]

How long have you had him? Has he been exposed to ANY new fish or plants? How is eating/appetite and what kind of poo are you seeing?

The epsom is a good choice, and keep the temperature in the 76-78 range. We will likely medicate further but I need more information about this particular fish's history, behavior, and exposures.

[Butterfly 485]

How long have you had him? Has he been exposed to ANY new fish or plants? How is eating/appetite and what kind of poo are you seeing?

The epsom is a good choice, and keep the temperature in the 76-78 range. We will likely medicate further but I need more information about this particular fish's history, behavior, and exposures.

Fish is from ECR. I've had him since April. He was joined by the ranchu (also ECR) shortly thereafter. About 4-5 mo later I added Big Bob who I have had for about 15 mo. Big Bob was I assume an import I bought at a koi show who has been healthy throughout but I fully treated (prob over tx) with salt, prazi, metro, and FMG (not all at once!) prior to adding to these fish to eliminate or at least reduce any potential disease burden.

I honestly don't see the fish in this tank poop unless the tank is full of duckweed. Anything at the bottom is usually brown crumbly stuff, maybe some formed stuff before it goes to the filter. I will see what he does in the QT.

No plants.

Water is 78 now. I will add a heater tomorrow.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Butterfly

[Mikey 6,789]

My advice would be Contact Cynthia asap. I hope he pulls through

[Butterfly 485]

How long have you had him? Has he been exposed to ANY new fish or plants? How is eating/appetite and what kind of poo are you seeing?

The epsom is a good choice, and keep the temperature in the 76-78 range. We will likely medicate further but I need more information about this particular fish's history, behavior, and exposures.

0.5t/10g is appropriate dose Epsom salt?

[Arctic Mama 3,651]

Yes, that's fine. You can even go up to 1 teaspoon per gallon but it won't make a huge difference, so we usually recommend .5 teaspoons per gallon unless there is a compelling reason to change the dose.

[Speckles 1,178]

I hope your oranda pulls through ok!

[Arctic Mama 3,651]

Since it's ECR she can be picky about treatment and warrantees on animals, so I'd also recommend asking there first just to be sure.

If it were me, with no other exposures and symptoms, I'd do a combination of Metronidazole and Oxytetracycline for a two week course to try and get any internal infection under control, since you're not noting any signs of parasites and don't have a transmission vector in your tank history that would be recent enough to make sense. Hanging out near the spray bar could either be an issue with oxygenation (unlikely with what you're saying or the tank history and parameters) or the animal trying to find a low turbulence area to float and rest (more likely, and more consistent with an infection).

I noted you don't have Oxytetracycline on your list of available meds and with a less severe dropsy I'd try Kanaplex instead first, but because it came on so quickly the oxy is the only gram negative I'd feel comfortable using that would be most likely to be effective. The Kanaplex *may* work fine and not exacerbate the dropsy, but it isn't cut and dry and could possibly make things worse. It may be worth the risk for quick treatment though, since you would have to order the oxy, so it's your call.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Butterfly 485]

Since it's ECR she can be picky about treatment and warrantees on animals, so I'd also recommend asking there first just to be sure.

If it were me, with no other exposures and symptoms, I'd do a combination of Metronidazole and Oxytetracycline for a two week course to try and get any internal infection under control, since you're not noting any signs of parasites and don't have a transmission vector in your tank history that would be recent enough to make sense. Hanging out near the spray bar could either be an issue with oxygenation (unlikely with what you're saying or the tank history and parameters) or the animal trying to find a low turbulence area to float and rest (more likely, and more consistent with an infection).

I noted you don't have Oxytetracycline on your list of available meds and with a less severe dropsy I'd try Kanaplex instead first, but because it came on so quickly the oxy is the only gram negative I'd feel comfortable using that would be most likely to be effective. The Kanaplex *may* work fine and not exacerbate the dropsy, but it isn't cut and dry and could possibly make things worse. It may be worth the risk for quick treatment though, since you would have to order the oxy, so it's your call.

Thanks again. I actually do have Ken's oxytet pellets (used on a pond fish I bought with a sore earlier this year).

The fish is still swimming around seemingly happily this morning but I dropped in some of the pellets and he didn't seem to notice or be interested in them. There was a little poop but less than I would have expected. It was normal color (NLS Thera-A brown) but small caliber. Dropsy is not significantly worse but I just am not feeling like this is going to work out well...

Totally bummed. ☹️

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[Flipper 13,057]

I was thinking about you and your fish last night. How'd you both do?

[DawnMichele 6,045]

Hope your Oranda is feeling better.   

[Arctic Mama 3,651]

If eating isn't working well then please just start waterborne metro for the time being. You can try the pellets in a few days if the metro perks things up.

[Butterfly 485]

Thank you all.

Came home after late day and the fish is still alive. Still swimming merrily along. Seems to be enjoying the bubble bar. Looks a little weak though. Did not eat the pellets so I siphoned them off with the water change. I plugged in the heater.

So, we'll see. He looks so bad I'm really preparing for the worst. I guess miracles can happen.

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