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amoonklein

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Hi Guys.

 

Hugo is still plugging along in his QT.  Assuming all continues to be well with him, he's scheduled to join his buddies in the main tank in a few days.  

 

Before that happens, I wanted to mention a few things that I am noticing in the main tank.  Being the Nervous Nelly that I am, I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid or if I'm picking up on something that is out of whack... either way, I want to get it sorted before reintroducing Hugo.

 

So here goes:

 

Test Results for the Following

Ammonia Level

- Tank: 0 ppm  

- Tap: between 0.25 - 0.5 ppm (closer to 0.5 ppm)

Nitrite Level

- Tank: 0 ppm  

- Tap: 0 ppm

Nitrate Level

- Tank: 10 ppm prior to their water change on Saturday (4 days in between last water change)

- Tap: 0 ppm 

PH Level

- Tank: 8.0 - 8.2 (closer to 8.2)  

- Tap: Immediate test @ 8.2, test after sitting for 1+ hour @ 8.2, test after 24 hours @ 8.0-8.2 (closer to 8.2)

KH Level

- Tank: 5-6 (leaning more towards 6) 

- Tap: 5-(leaning more towards 6) 

I've been using baking soda to buffer for a few years as my KH was typically low (4-5ish?) so I was surprised to see that it was 5-6 (leaning more towards 6) out of the tap.  Is the baking soda still necessary?)

GH Level

- Tank: ?  

- Tap: ?

My test kit is expired :(  I ordered a replacement which should be here tomorrow so I can provide official GH results tomorrow night (my water is typically pretty hard)

Dissolved Oxygen

- Tank: 8mg/L (I think this is decent?)

 

 

Other Required Info

Brand of Test Kit Used:  API drops & Salifert for the D.O. test

Water Temperature: 72 degrees

Tank Size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

120 Gallon Tank - running since June 2016.  Sump added to the tank on August 28th and total water volume is currently ~150 gallons.  Media for the sump came from my canister so everything is cycled and has been since January 2016.

What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

DIY sump set-up as an emerged trickle filter with some submerged media.  It's a 40G breeder that holds ~20-25 gallons when running, currently pushing 550 gph with a Kedsum 550 pump.  I can provide pictures if it's helpful to see the sump.

I also have a Sun Sun CUP-609 UV Sterilizer in the tank (as an added bonus which also helps push water across the tank since it's so long)

How often do you change the water and how much?

Water is changed at least once a week, 80-90% 

How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

Saturday was their last water change, and I changed ~70%.  Walls of the tank (and sump) are scrubbed and water is siphoned out of both the tank and sump.

How many fish in the tank and their size?

There are currently 7 fancy goldfish in the tank, 2 orandas and 5 ryukins (Hugo is currently in QT, otherwise the # would be at 8):

- Studly (ryukin) is 2.5" SL and ~1.5" wide

- Ralph (ryukin) is 2" SL and ~1" wide

- Hef (oranda) is 3" SL and ~1.5" wide

- Huck (oranda) is 3.5" SL and ~1.5" wide

- 3 Juvenille Ryukins (Biggie, Abby, Harvey) are each ~2" SL and less than 1" wide

(Hugo (oranda) is 4" SL and ~2" wide)

Let me know if you'd also like their weight in grams.  I have a scale that can do this.

What kind of water additives or conditioners?

Prime. Wonder Shells. I also use Baking Soda to stabilize my PH (1 tsp per 20 gallons)

What do you feed your fish and how often? How frequently do you feed each?

It varies, but recently it's been mostly duckweed, nori seaweed, and spirulina flakes.  

I also add in the occasional Azayaka Basic Balance (pre-soaked), blanched veggies, frozen blood worms/brine shrimp/spirulina brine shrimp, Veggie tank mates, and NLS Thera A+ .5 mm pellets.   I haven't touched the Repashy in a while.

Feeding is typically once/twice a day (unless I'm home on the weekend when they get small meals up to 3x day. I fast them at least once a week.

Any new fish added to the tank?

Huck (an oranda) was added to the tank on 9/10/2016.  In hindsight, Huck's QT was a little short (1 month QT with 15 days at 0.3% salt and 3 rounds of prazi).

Any medications added to the tank?

Nope.

List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.  Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

Initial quarantine period for all fancies included 0.3% salt with prazi.  

Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

Some frayed fins on Hef (he's my special guy with a wonky swim bladder), some stringy poo that is kind of white and/or a bit clearish (from Studly and Harvey for sure but I can't tell if anyone else has that issue)

Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc?

There is a lot of surface piping going on... especially from Studly who seems to be hanging out just near the surface and almost constantly pipes.

Biggie and Huck have been swimming through the bubbles... a lot.  Not all the time, but when they do it's for extended periods and makes me wonder what they are up to.

Ralph and Abby have been bottom sitting off and on throughout the last 2 days.  Dorsals are up, but it's weird to see them sitting on the bottom to rest.  As soon as I come up to the tank they are wiggly and begging for food.

Hef has been looking a bit more sad than usual... he's less active and when not swimming, he's resting at the top of the tank like a cute little buoy.

 

I may be reading into things and I kinda hoping that I am, but I'd prefer to rule out a potential problem so that I can feel good about Hugo going back home.  I am really hoping that I didn't introduce something into the tank when I added Huck.  Plus, the last thing I'd want to do get Hugo sick again after he just finished his treatment.

 

Thank you in advance :D

 

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How long ago did you prazi the fish?  The bottom sitting suggests the fish may have an illness or parasite.

 

Other than that you can clear the surface by making one of uarujoey's

  If the skimmer doesn't stop the "piping" they might have a breathing problem.  I can also see some things that might contribute to surface film.  Soaking pellets will release solubles and scrubbing the walls of the aquarium regularly can release much of that biofilm to add to the surface film.  The biofilm that forms on the walls and floor of a pond contributes to water purification and provides some healthful "salad" for the fish.  A simpler diet can make it easier to figure out the value of various foods.  I don't think that a diet of duckweed, nori, and spirullina covers all of the nutritional needs of goldfish.  Half duckweed and half commercial pellets has produced maximum growth in tilapia. 

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How long ago did you prazi the fish?  The bottom sitting suggests the fish may have an illness or parasite.

 

Other than that you can clear the surface by making one of uarujoey's

  If the skimmer doesn't stop the "piping" they might have a breathing problem.  I can also see some things that might contribute to surface film.  Soaking pellets will release solubles and scrubbing the walls of the aquarium regularly can release much of that biofilm to add to the surface film.  The biofilm that forms on the walls and floor of a pond contributes to water purification and provides some healthful "salad" for the fish.  A simpler diet can make it easier to figure out the value of various foods.  I don't think that a diet of duckweed, nori, and spirullina covers all of the nutritional needs of goldfish.  Half duckweed and half commercial pellets has produced maximum growth in tilapia. 

Hi Shakaho :)

 

Their last prazi was around the time Huck was added to the tank... so a little over a month ago. 

 

The sump that is running on the tank uses an overflow that was built into the tank.  The overflow box has a weir at the top which helps to skim the surface... although I'm not sure how much skimming it's doing since the weir is located in one corner of the tank.  I'm happy to make/add a skimmer to the tank if you think it will be helpful... maybe on the opposite corner to make sure I'm getting both sides.

 

Thank you for the suggestion on their diet.  They have been eating the duckweed and spirulina (with a few pellet additions) for just a few weeks (with the nori being added in last week)  I'll make sure to give them more variety and add in more pellet deliciousness (they definitely won't complain and will eagerly gobble it up)

 

:D

 

Edited for spelling error

Edited by amoonklein

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Oops!  I also wanted to mention that while I wipe down the walls during water changes, I try to leave the bottom of the tank (and the back wall behind the bubbles) alone for the most part.  There is some brown algae growing on the bottom of the tank that they like to poke at.

 

I'm happy to change anything in my schedule that will benefit them.  I feel like I'm a forever student.   I know I have a lot to learn, especially when it comes to water chemistry.  I read articles trying to be a sponge but a lot of it goes right over my head.  One of these days, I'll get the hang of it (hopefully).

 

Point being, I appreciate your input and definitely take it to heart.  Anything I can do to provide a better environment, I'm all for it.

 

Edited for grammatical errors *blush*

Edited by amoonklein

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Joey's skimmer will work and may take about 15 minutes to make.

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Joey's skimmer will work and may take about 15 minutes to make.

Thanks, Shakaho.  It will be a fun project and I think I may have most of these items on hand (except for the pump).  I've been a bit spendy so I'm a little short on cash at the moment, but I think I can put something together by the end of the week or early next week.

 

In the interim, should I still hold off on returning Hugo to the main tank or do you think it's OK to put him back in?

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I'd hold him out until you are sure the tank is healthy.

 

Can I see a picture or sketch of your filter?

 

Do the fish behave differently before and after a large water change?

 

You have such an excellent set up and maintenance  that I'm looking for any reason for sluggish fish.

 

What pH do you have in tap water without baking soda?

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I'd hold him out until you are sure the tank is healthy.

Will do!  I'll make sure he gets special treatment in his personal suite  :thumb:

 

Can I see a picture or sketch of your filter?

Sure thing!  Below are a few pics of the set-up when I first got everything installed.  Let me know if you'd like to see current pics and I'll take some tonight when I get home.

 

Do the fish behave differently before and after a large water change?

This is a very good question.  I haven't paid too much attention to this (which I suppose means their behavior is relatively the same before/during/after).  I do see an increase in surface piping when filling the tank, but for the most part I don't really see a difference unless there is a swing in temperature.  I will try to be more mindful and pay closer attention so I can give you a better answer going forward :)

 

You have such an excellent set up and maintenance  that I'm looking for any reason for sluggish fish.

Thank you.  It's definitely frustrating for me because I while I think I'm doing the right thing, it doesn't seem like they are thriving.  I think I must be doing something wrong or I'm not picking up on something that I should be.  <-- sheesh

 

What pH do you have in tap water without baking soda?

Straight out of the tap, my pH is 8.2.  

I set some tap water aside in a glass and did a retest after 1 hour and got 8.2

After 24 hours, it was 8.0-8.2 (closer to 8.2)

After 36 hours, it was 8.0

I'm going to test it again tonight (after 48 hours)

 

My KH is 5-6 (closer to 6) out of the tap

Hopefully my GH test will arrive soon so I can provide that info as well.

 

Overflow box (located in the left corner of the tank:

20160828_200511_zpslihvbwwr.jpg

 

Sump (when running, it's filled to the top of the bottom drawer):

20160828_200523_zpszhgous3l.jpg

 

UV Sterilizer (set in the right corner of the tank near the surface for a bit of surface agitation and the output is pointed at towards the left):

20161011_064250_zpsyredyyzi.jpg

 

This is typically how they look when I'm changing the water (plus the surface piping):

20160828_200450_zpsrf5fu7la.jpg

 

This morning, Huck's wen looks a bit off:

bfc349bb-d847-46af-b579-d57ca9ff221b_zps

 

It's tough to see, but I don't know if that's wen growth or something else?  It looks kind of white(ish) with a hint of pink on the cheek

3248cae2-ffba-47eb-ab2f-1ee22a84b83f_zps

Edited by amoonklein

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Well, I think I figured out what the problem could be!

 

I figured I'd do a water change on the main tank since I got home early today.  My motto lately has been: when in doubt, change the water out.

 

I gave the sump a drain as well and while draining it, I pulled the bottom drawer out and used the gravel vac in the media.  The amount of gross that came out was... well... gross!  Once I saw the amount of debris that I was sucking up, I pulled the whole drawer out and dumped the media into a bucket with tank water.  I took it outside and swished the "you know what" out of it and did a few rinses with old tank water.

 

No wonder the goldfish have been sulky.  I wouldn't feel well either if I had to be around a bunch of decomposing organics   :(

I feel pretty bad right now.  I've been "cleaning" the sump as part of my regular maintenance, but I've been cleaning it by draining, "swishing" the tower back and forth, and replacing the polyfill.  Ugh... I should know better.  I need to be treating it like a giant canister.

 

I'm in the process of refilling the tank now and hopefully the goldfish start to perk up again?  I'm making the assumption that the dirty sump is the source of the problem and hopefully nothing else is going on... hopefully.

 

I will be keeping a close eye on everyone to see if there is improvement.

 

Lesson learned... the hard way.

Edited by amoonklein

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Well, I think I figured out what the problem could be!

 

I figured I'd do a water change on the main tank since I got home early today.  My motto lately has been: when in doubt, change the water out.

 

I gave the sump a drain as well and while draining it, I pulled the bottom drawer out and used the gravel vac in the media.  The amount of gross that came out was... well... gross!  Once I saw the amount of debris that I was sucking up, I pulled the whole drawer out and dumped the media into a bucket with tank water.  I took it outside and swished the "you know what" out of it and did a few rinses with old tank water.

 

No wonder the goldfish have been sulky.  I wouldn't feel well either if I had to be around a bunch of decomposing organics   :(

I feel pretty bad right now.  I've been "cleaning" the sump as part of my regular maintenance, but I've been cleaning it by draining, "swishing" the tower back and forth, and replacing the polyfill.  Ugh... I should know better.  I need to be treating it like a giant canister.

 

I'm in the process of refilling the tank now and hopefully the goldfish start to perk up again?  I'm making the assumption that the dirty sump is the source of the problem and hopefully nothing else is going on... hopefully.

 

I will be keeping a close eye on everyone to see if there is improvement.

 

Lesson learned... the hard way.

Oh dang!!!! I have been keeping a note book on water testing, WCs and filter cleaning... There is sooooo much to keep track of between tank maintenance, Quarantines, injuries, new fishys and now floaty fish... Really helps me keep my head on straight... I also discovered that the covers to the uptake tubes of my AC70s really makes a difference in how much gook is in the filter at cleaning time... I am thinking that I'm going to clean them 2 to 3 times a week... I cleaned them today at wc... wow!!! There's a whole lot of stuff in them... yucky!!! I have fingers and fins crossed that you found the issue that was making your babies act off kilter... :)

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Well, I think I figured out what the problem could be!

 

I figured I'd do a water change on the main tank since I got home early today.  My motto lately has been: when in doubt, change the water out.

 

I gave the sump a drain as well and while draining it, I pulled the bottom drawer out and used the gravel vac in the media.  The amount of gross that came out was... well... gross!  Once I saw the amount of debris that I was sucking up, I pulled the whole drawer out and dumped the media into a bucket with tank water.  I took it outside and swished the "you know what" out of it and did a few rinses with old tank water.

 

No wonder the goldfish have been sulky.  I wouldn't feel well either if I had to be around a bunch of decomposing organics   :(

I feel pretty bad right now.  I've been "cleaning" the sump as part of my regular maintenance, but I've been cleaning it by draining, "swishing" the tower back and forth, and replacing the polyfill.  Ugh... I should know better.  I need to be treating it like a giant canister.

 

I'm in the process of refilling the tank now and hopefully the goldfish start to perk up again?  I'm making the assumption that the dirty sump is the source of the problem and hopefully nothing else is going on... hopefully.

 

I will be keeping a close eye on everyone to see if there is improvement.

 

Lesson learned... the hard way.

Oh dang!!!! I have been keeping a note book on water testing, WCs and filter cleaning... There is sooooo much to keep track of between tank maintenance, Quarantines, injuries, new fishys and now floaty fish... Really helps me keep my head on straight... I also discovered that the covers to the uptake tubes of my AC70s really makes a difference in how much gook is in the filter at cleaning time... I am thinking that I'm going to clean them 2 to 3 times a week... I cleaned them today at wc... wow!!! There's a whole lot of stuff in them... yucky!!! I have fingers and fins crossed that you found the issue that was making your babies act off kilter... :)

 

Yes!  I have to keep a notebook as well.  It really helps me to keep a log that I can look back on.  It's crazy how good our goldies are at making a mess... and how quickly our filters get gunky.

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Hi guys!

 

I wanted to pop in with an update.  Since the "oh my god I feel like a big jerk" sump cleaning on Tuesday, everyone has perked up.  They are much more active, little to no bottom sitting, and Huck's wen near his cheek looks so much better.   They are still surface piping, but hopefully that will diminish once I get the additional skimmer set-up.  I took a few videos tonight... apologies for the poor quality:

 

These were taken about an hour after they ate dinner (they surface pipe more after feeding)...

 

 

 

I did a 60% water change last night and did another thorough swishing/cleaning of the media in the bottom drawer of the sump (for good measure in case ickies were lingering from the last cleaning).

 

I'll continue to keep an eye on them to make sure they are still improving :)  I'm still kicking myself for letting the media get that yucky.

 

Assuming everyone is still feeling OK, how long before I can add Hugo back in with his buddies?

 

:D

How long to the mai

Edited by amoonklein

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Chris here... Yay!!! I'm soooo glad those babies are perking up!!! Mr. P is back in the tank... He waited till alter dinner to start eating some bubbles... but not excessively yet.... :(. Stinker....

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Chris here... Yay!!! I'm soooo glad those babies are perking up!!! Mr. P is back in the tank... He waited till alter dinner to start eating some bubbles... but not excessively yet.... :(. Stinker....

Oooo so glad to hear Mr. P is back with his buddies :D

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

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You're reminding me I need to clean my own filters, we are getting some split fins and a little less activity in my own tank and it could very well be mulm in the filters. It can happen to the best of us - I have a hard time lifting canisters when pregnant :o

I'm so glad everyone is feeling better and acting more normal. Yay!

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You're reminding me I need to clean my own filters, we are getting some split fins and a little less activity in my own tank and it could very well be mulm in the filters. It can happen to the best of us - I have a hard time lifting canisters when pregnant :o

I'm so glad everyone is feeling better and acting more normal. Yay!

I act like an old man when it comes to bending and lifting fishy things... I can imagine having a baby bump makes those tasks that much more difficult!

 

I did another water change yesterday and moved a few things around.  I put the UV sterilizer in the sump and pointed the output towards the water's surface to get some agitation.  

 

20161016_112058_zpseeynjdhm.jpg

 

I also finally set-up the sand bed filter (I purchased it at the same time I picked up the UV sterilizer... which is why I've been short on cash recently).  I placed it where the UV sterilizer had been to help keep the water moving in the right corner of the tank.  It's jerry-rigged right now since I didn't have some of the right hoses/connectors but I'll get that sorted soon so it looks prettier and the output functions a bit better.

 

20161016_112240_zpsci6xrjhy.jpg

 

20161016_112314_zpspsahxujg.jpg

 

Fishy photo bombs (of course)

 

20161016_112330_zpsdirvredx.jpg

 

Right after I set-it up and got it started, I realised I didn't tighten the top enough and it was leaking :(  So I had to take it all apart and put it back together... which is why there is sand in the tank (of course it was right after I did the water change and siphoned all the poop off of the bottom).

 

Everyone is still active and behaving more normally.  I'm thinking it's probably OK to put Hugo back in?  Maybe?

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Glad they seem to be better. Sharon said to wait until you were SURE everything was totally healthy before we put prickly pear back into the tank.

PS - Has Abby outgrown mommy fish?

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Glad they seem to be better. Sharon said to wait until you were SURE everything was totally healthy before we put prickly pear back into the tank.

PS - Has Abby outgrown mommy fish?

Thanks, MJ.

 

This may seem like a stupid question, but how can I be sure everything is OK?  Water params are good, they are not bottom sitting, I don't see any stringy poo.  They still surface pipe, but I'm not sure if this is considered normal for them.  I definitely want to be sure before I put Hugo back in... I guess I'm just not sure how long I wait and observe.

 

I do think Miss Abby is just as big if not a little bigger than Ralph!  She's definitely growing fast!

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I wonder why Abby grew so much faster than the others? I haven't seen Biggie, or maybe I have but he changed colors? The surface gulping from all the fish is kinda weird. Like in my main tank, Shembje has always had a tendency to do it, but the other two don't. If they all started to do it, I'd think something was up. Same as in the little pond, when Omen sees someone, he will pluck at the surface a lot, but the others not nearly so much. If everyone did it, I'd be concerned. If its not new or seems odd, I guess floppy wen guy can go back. I'm sure he'd be happy to see his friends. I'm sure a moderator will chime in soon.

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I wonder why Abby grew so much faster than the others? I haven't seen Biggie, or maybe I have but he changed colors? The surface gulping from all the fish is kinda weird. Like in my main tank, Shembje has always had a tendency to do it, but the other two don't. If they all started to do it, I'd think something was up. Same as in the little pond, when Omen sees someone, he will pluck at the surface a lot, but the others not nearly so much. If everyone did it, I'd be concerned. If its not new or seems odd, I guess floppy wen guy can go back. I'm sure he'd be happy to see his friends. I'm sure a moderator will chime in soon.

Here's Biggie:

20161016_122957_zpsclzoblww.jpg

 

and one near Studly (dad)

20161016_123206_zpsprjgzyta.jpg

 

Biggie used to be the largest of the fry but once I put him, Abby, and Harvey in the main tank, Abby quickly outgrew the others.  I'm not sure why she's so much larger than her siblings, but she's a cutie for sure.  

 

As for the surface piping, your question is a good one!  No everyone is a surface piper... unless it's after feeding and then they all seem to do it for a little while.  The biggest culprit is Studly, but a few others have a tenancy to do it.  Huck, Hugo, and Abby could care less about the surface most of the time... unless I'm near the tank and then they think they getting something delicious.  Then they go into full "beg" mode.

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Oh Biggie's specific color is sooo pretty. He's still my favorite. Glad to see him. He's got an ITSY BITSY hump coming in. I'd wager they're fine, they all look healthy otherwise.

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