Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Sammy El-Tawil

Pox - Remember Me?..

Recommended Posts

Hi Kokos

I posted before about my fish I recently bought.. And which I managed to contaminate my main tank with, wash your hands..

So you guys suggested Flukes, I treated and nothing, so I spent money on a Koi Expert and scraped the fish, nothing!

Everything was ok.. Until a few weeks ago, the lumps went from a few, to annihilation.

I asked a breeder in Japan and straight away he said are they from China.. I said yes, I remember the shop owner saying that.

So apparently it's Pox and all my fish will die..

Unless you've seen something here.. I don't know what to say, reality hit when I was told and as a grown man, I've cried quite a bit since being told.

Recent pictures.

http://m.imgur.com/a/Tg0yN

Edited by Gainzster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should add, the breeder mentioned the issue can be controlled but not removed, he has yet to get back to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your fish are so gorgeous! I hope they get better soon :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your fish are so gorgeous! I hope they get better soon :)

Thank you, sadly I think it's asking for a miracle from what I've been told by so many.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, do you know what it is? :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, do you know what it is? :wacko:

His words..

 

Seperate your fish and pray - Heh.

 

I've had them scraped and nothing, which means it's some sort of pox perhaps? He said it's pox, and he said the Chinese breeding market has collapsed due to it, something along the lines of they medicate the fish, and once the fish arrive.. and sold.. by the time the fish are in households, the symptoms don't show for a while as the medication has somehow kept it unseen.

 

He's one guy, I'm asking so many, a vet I spoke to has never seen it, so hasn't the Koi Dealer.

 

My tank is £1000, my Oranda was worth probably £250, he's now worth -£250, but I love him, and they're slowly dying, all I tried to do was find a beautiful female.. which I did! and she's ended up being a carrier, which is mind boggling.. because look at the size of her.

 

She's at least 2 years old, and the shop had her for 4 weeks, and she showed nothing.

 

As soon as I had her, within a week, she was covered.

 

I'm thinking of a stupid Melafix/Pimafix trial.

 

When we scraped her, we scraped off a layer of these spots and nothing, they actually disappeared, she was basically cured after the scrape.

 

Then within a few weeks, it was back. 

Edited by Gainzster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Strange :ill I'm sorry this has happened!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, we have had fish on this forum with the same tail lesions who have displayed no other symptoms, gone on to live long lives, and infected no one. That sort of blistering tail issue without any other symptoms isn't something I'd personally panic about because I haven't seen it harm a tank here or in real life.

If they're on the body as well then I'd be more concerned, I couldn't tell from your picture? These don't look like carp pox to me at all. It also doesn't look like KHV, which would be a very serious diagnosis and reportable to fish and game.

ETA - I noticed there were more pictures posted and it has been contagious - I didn't see those the first time I looked. There are some treatments we could try if you were amenable, and observe the condition of the fish in the meantime. I've dealt with a fast moving and deadly disease in my own tank and was able to salvage everything but a few pounds of sand with proper sterilization, even plants and driftwood, and zero reoccurrence. If this isn't taking them down quickly you could wait out the fish (and be super careful with buying imports!) and then we could work on cleaning and running your system empty for a bit for double insurance against future infection.

Just some thoughts.

Edited by Arctic Mama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, we have had fish on this forum with the same tail lesions who have displayed no other symptoms, gone on to live long lives, and infected no one. That sort of blistering tail issue without any other symptoms isn't something I'd personally panic about because I haven't seen it harm a tank here or in real life.

If they're on the body as well then I'd be more concerned, I couldn't tell from your picture? These don't look like carp pox to me at all. It also doesn't look like KHV, which would be a very serious diagnosis and reportable to fish and game.

Hey, nice to see you again.

It's definitely contagious as it's infected all 4 fish through handling and then through the fish themselves. If you open the pictures fully they're full of blood, I wouldn't even dare scrape those off now.

The Butterfly has it on his belly.

I'm sure they'll live, it's just gutting, the Calico has to be a test fish, she's badly covered, I'm open to suggestions from you.

One thing happened when we scraped her, she lost a lot of them, I'm thinking perhaps the rough handing and the flukesolve in the water may have played a part.. But it's so bad now.

Finally I'm open to the scrape being a dud.

Edited by Gainzster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ETA - I noticed there were more pictures posted and it has been contagious - I didn't see those the first time I looked. There are some treatments we could try if you were amenable, and observe the condition of the fish in the meantime. I've dealt with a fast moving and deadly disease in my own tank and was able to salvage everything but a few pounds of sand with proper sterilization, even plants and driftwood, and zero reoccurrence. If this isn't taking them down quickly you could wait out the fish (and be super careful with buying imports!) and then we could work on cleaning and running your system empty for a bit for double insurance against future infection.

Just some thoughts.

Well, if these fish die I'm quitting the hobby, so what do you suggest? It's been months but the last week it's been savage. Well start on the Calico as she's by herself and she's the original carrier. Edited by Gainzster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't stop you from quitting the hobby, I know it can be discouraging. I'd begin treating everyone with acriflavine and see if they shrink or the spread stops. It will nuke your filter but also sterilize the tubes and tank while you're treating and should slow the spread if any fish has been left unaffected.

If you can fill out the disease and diagnosis form with all the past treatment information and a very detailed timeline of who got sick and when, preferably with pictures, we can better help keep this straight and give you the best advice possible as a team.

Edited by Arctic Mama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't stop you from quitting the hobby, I know it can be discouraging. I'd begin treating everyone with acriflavine and see if they shrink or the spread stops. It will nuke your filter but also sterilize the tubes and tank while you're treating and should slow the spread if any fish has been left unaffected.

If you can fill out the disease and diagnosis form with all the past treatment information and a very detailed timeline of who got sick and when, preferably with pictures, we can better help keep this straight and give you the best advice possible as a team.

I think it's Pox Mana, the bigger they grow I believe the easier it's to recognise.

I kinda wish I scraped these off before they grew.

I'll update soon, quick question, Chloramine T or Myaxin good? And what about Fluke Solve to essentially strip the slimeciat? Perhaps use Flukesolve then salt? No idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What temperature do you keep the fish at?    I assume you are talking about carp pox, which doesn't look at all like the small spots I see on the fish.  Rather it looks like splotches of melted wax.  It doesn't show up well in a picture of a calico fish, but it could be the white I see on the wen.  

 

Fluke solve won't strip the slime coat, but salt dips will.   Using salt dips followed by a fluke treatment may clear some of the small white spots.  Carp pox normally occurs seasonally in pond fish.  I have heard people describe it anywhere from highly contagious to rarely contagious.  It does not usually make fish sick at all -- just unsightly.  Do your fish appear sick?

 

Please fill out the form so we can get the big picture of your system.

 

Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that if you're going to strip slimecoat use salt dips as Shakaho indicated. Do you not have any meds that are just straight acriflavine? Here in the US this is the brand I usually recommend:

http://apifishcare.co.uk/product.php?p=downloads&id=111

It's a topical antiseptic that can contain the spread of bacterial and fungal infections, though it is of limited usefulness on viruses it does appear to inhibit their spread to new hosts, possibly through a virucidal effect in the water.

Are you referring to Myxazin P? I can't find active ingredients to it to analyze if it would work or not.

Please fill out the form in detail as I asked above, with pictures and an explicit timeline of onset and treatment of each fish. We really can't help without it.

Edited by Arctic Mama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

You have no idea how bad it has spread.. Take the pictures, triple the size of the lumps, add red blisters.

Right, yes, Myxazin P, there is Protozin too.

I'd have to call to Koi Dealer in, there isn't an off the shelf Acriflavin.

My water is perfect.. I can't remember which fish were treated with Flukesolve but it was a long time ago, long gone. Within 5 months, tiny whitespot dots to pox sized lumps.

So straight Acriflavin into the tank? Temp is always 72. I believe this is lymphocytosis.. But honestly they look exactly the same.

The pictures do get large, look at the edge of the fins, and the body of the Butterfly.

I have one fish totally unaffected, and it's my baby fish, guessing either a carrier with resistance or a strong immune system.

Edited by Gainzster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Carp do not get lymphocystis.  They can get epitheliocystis, a bacterial disease which looks similar.  Acriflavine can treat epitheliocyctis.  Follow Arctic Mama's advice above.  She linked you to a source of acriflavine.

 

Blisters do not occur with carp pox.  Either they don't have carp pox or they have it along with a bacterial infection.  

 

Try raising the temperature of the tank to 80F.  Then hold it there.

 

Please fill out the form and give us a picture of the blisters.  

Edited by shakaho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The blisters can be seen in a few pictures of the just bigger.

I'm in the UK that product is not available to me. Tomorrow I can treat with Myxazin or ESHA 2000.

I believe it's what has been described due to the gill gasping involved on the two new fish, it's a shame this wasn't suggested months ago.. But that's life, someone else said it may be it also, or it may not be.. If it isn't, it's probably not treatable and thus Formalin is suggested or salt baths but again incurable.

Edited by Gainzster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please fill out the form or we cannot give further advice.

I can offer no details on your local treatments without your help on the form as we have asked multiple times (it's critical for proper treatment and so we do not hurt your fish), and a list of the active ingredients if you can get it from the packaging. I haven't had much luck finding that information online (which isn't uncommon with UK treatments).

We have given our basic requirements and if you don't comply we can't help. Good luck to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blister picture or whatever you want to call it. Update of the other two fish.

http://m.imgur.com/a/5dawj

I'll fill the form in a few hours I'm getting some sleep, in general, perfect water, no salt or anything in the water in any decent amount, Flukesolve was used months ago, so all in all, the tanks are essentially free of anything. I'd be lieing if I didn't believe the salt helped previously, perhaps it delayed the spread?

Edited by Gainzster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KOKOS

I saw a worm, just now, in the tank. Tiny white worm, it didn't move at all, it looked like debris, then it wiggled, in 5 months, I haven't seen it before.

Please tell me there is a worm that can cause this, someone suggested a worm months ago but it was suggested as an anchor, this was tiny, slightly smaller than an eyelash and basically translucent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 15
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 5
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.5
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.5
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API
      • * Water temperature? 70
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? Years. 8 Months, 100G, 100L
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? FX6, U4 + U2
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? Every week in main tank, every 2 days in smaller tank.
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Tonight, 30%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 9", 8", 5", 4"
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? API Tap Water Conditioner
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Pellets, Varies
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? FlukeSolve - Months ago - Salt - Months ago

Not that it helps, but there you go.

 

So, the tiny, wriggling, translucent worm. I've said this before, but at times, the lumps have tiny green specs. That's it.

 

Maybe they have some sort of worm AND something else like Pox.

Edited by Gainzster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't worry about the worm.  

 

Carp pox lesions normally occur in pond fish in the winter, and go away when the water warms in the summer.  At 70oF,  I would expect to see lesions in a fish carrying carp pox.  So gradually (no more than 2oF a day) raise the water temperature to  80oF and keep it there.  If the fish have carp pox, the lesions should decrease in the warmer water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't worry about the worm.

Carp pox lesions normally occur in pond fish in the winter, and go away when the water warms in the summer. At 70oF, I would expect to see lesions in a fish carrying carp pox. So gradually (no more than 2oF a day) raise the water temperature to 80oF and keep it there. If the fish have carp pox, the lesions should decrease in the warmer water.

Should I salt the tank?

Simply because, I massively feel like the salt decreased the spread. In fact at the start of the infection, the Butterfly was healed with salt over about two weeks, that was only at a 0.4% concentration.

It didn't help the others, but it never spread to the point where it is now.

Lastly, one fish is totally unaffected, it had one tiny pox last week, but it's gone.

Edited by Gainzster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would prefer to do one thing at a time.  I don't believe salt has any effect on carp pox or any other viral disease.  Temperature does affect it.  So try raising the temperature.  If that doesn't produce any change, you probably have a bacterial or parasite problem.  Then we can look at salt treatments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
  • Create New...