Fish I was paranoid about yesterday IS pineconing!

[misssmountain 67]

Hey guys,

 

I posted yesterday thinking my blue oranda may be pineconing...I took some more photos today. It does look like she is starting to pinecone up near the gills, and she seems way more bloated than yesterday. Take a look:

 

Yesterday --

 

 

Today --

 

 

What do I do???? I've had one in a hospital tank for a month now with a full rounds of meds and medicated food, and her pineconing is still not 100% cured. I have Stormy and another fish in the main tank (the other one seems fine for now). I don't have the space for a second hospital tank. I've been thinking about clove oil for the first fish because it's just gone on for way too long, and now I have another sick one.

 

Also, this follows another death early last month...is all of this related or just some super awful coincidence?

 

Thanks guys

[misssmountain 67]

As I await your responses, I have dosed the main tank with 1 tsp per 10 gallons of EPSOM salt. 

 

I hope this is okay, and that it won't affect the healthy fish.

 

Come to think of it, I have noticed a lot of long, stringy white poop in the tank over the last week or so, but I didn't think much of it because everyone seemed healthy and fine. Could she be eggbound possibly?

[Mikey 6,780]

I'm sorry your fish isn't feeling well please fill this form out to help the mods * Ammonia Level(Tank)

* Nitrite Level(Tank)

* Nitrate level(Tank)

* Ammonia Level(Tap)

* Nitrite Level(Tap)

* Nitrate level(Tap)

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

* Water temperature?

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

* How often do you change the water and how much?

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

* How many fish in the tank and their size?

* What kind of water additives or conditioners?

* What do you feed your fish and how often?

* Any new fish added to the tank?

* Any medications added to the tank?

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

I would get your fish into a QT tank as soon as you can if possible. I know you said you don't have room for another though.

What medications do you have on hand?

[Helen 8,511]

hello, yes, please fill out the form as Mikey has asked as well as advising what meds you are treating with in QT for your other pineconer..

 

if you can, also step us through your maintenance routine, ie, wc, filter clean, what flow rate your filters are, what plants, ornaments, substrate you have.. including driftwood and how you clean that etc. also, what watersource do you fill your tank with?

 

the dead and ill fish, were they all from the same supplier? if yes, purchased together or separately? and do you have access to a microscope?

[mjfromga 1,784]

Poor girl... She does look bloated today. She looked great yesterday...

[SweetMamaKaty 2,788]

Aw, sorry to see.

[koko 14,340]

As I await your responses, I have dosed the main tank with 1 tsp per 10 gallons of EPSOM salt. 

 

I hope this is okay, and that it won't affect the healthy fish.

 

Come to think of it, I have noticed a lot of long, stringy white poop in the tank over the last week or so, but I didn't think much of it because everyone seemed healthy and fine. Could she be eggbound possibly?

I  like you to order some colloidal silver 50ppm min.

 

Im going to ask you to put that in the main tank since you (i think) have two dropied fish?

[misssmountain 67]

 

As I await your responses, I have dosed the main tank with 1 tsp per 10 gallons of EPSOM salt. 

 

I hope this is okay, and that it won't affect the healthy fish.

 

Come to think of it, I have noticed a lot of long, stringy white poop in the tank over the last week or so, but I didn't think much of it because everyone seemed healthy and fine. Could she be eggbound possibly?

I  like you to order some colloidal silver 50ppm min.

 

Im going to ask you to put that in the main tank since you (i think) have two dropied fish?

 

 

Okay, I will look it up. At this point, is it okay to put the fish from the hospital tank back in the main tank since everyone is freaking sick anyway? 

[misssmountain 67]

hello, yes, please fill out the form as Mikey has asked as well as advising what meds you are treating with in QT for your other pineconer..

 

if you can, also step us through your maintenance routine, ie, wc, filter clean, what flow rate your filters are, what plants, ornaments, substrate you have.. including driftwood and how you clean that etc. also, what watersource do you fill your tank with?

 

the dead and ill fish, were they all from the same supplier? if yes, purchased together or separately? and do you have access to a microscope?

 

-other pineconer got Kanaplex, Metroplex, and Epsom salt, and now I am feeding her oxytetracycline flakes

 

-I do one huge water change a week, 80-90%, as I have been doing for years. I have an HOB filter and a canister filter, and I clean them about every other WC.I have sand as my substrate, artificial plants, some rocks, and some floating foam lotus flower things. I have a bubble bar across the back of the tank. I use a python-type water changer witih a vacuum, and fill my tank with good ol' Los Angeles city water (treated with prime, obviously). 

 

Filter details:

 

API XP Filstar L - (Formerly Filstar Rena XP3):

For aquariums up to 175 U.S. Gallons

Flow rate output to 350 GPH

 

-and-

 

Marineland Penguin 200 Biowheel Filter

 It silently filters 200 GPH for freshwater or marine aquariums up to 50 gallons

 

The fish were all three from different suppliers. The one that's passed I bought locally last November. The one I'm currently treating I have had for 2 1/2 years, also purchased locally, but from a different store. The new sick one I've had since December, from Coast Gem USA in San Diego.

 

I will get you the form now.

 

Edit -- I do not have access to a microscope.

Edited August 11, 2016 by misssmountain

[misssmountain 67]

* Ammonia Level(Tank) - 0

* Nitrite Level(Tank) - 0
* Nitrate level(Tank) - 5-10
* Ammonia Level(Tap) - 0.5
* Nitrite Level(Tap) - 0
* Nitrate level(Tap) - 5
* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 8.0
* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 8.2
Other Required Info:
* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API liquid test kit
* Water temperature? 80 degrees...hello, Los Angeles summer!
* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 60 gallons, December 2014
* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Penguin 200 HOB, API rena Filstar Large canister
* How often do you change the water and how much? once a week, 80-90%
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 2 days ago, 85%
* How many fish in the tank and their size? 3: 2 large orandas (5-6"), and one smaller one (4" about)
* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
* What do you feed your fish and how often? Mix of pellets (Hikari, cobalt), frozen Emerald Entree, bloodworms, brine shrimp, any combo of these twice per day
* Any new fish added to the tank? No
* Any medications added to the tank? I added Epsom salt at 1 tsp per 10 gallons last night
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. - I dosed with Prazi at my last 3 water changes as maintenance
* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? - just pineconing and bloating
* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? - no

What medications do you have on hand?

Kanaplex, Metroplex, and I'm ordering colloidal silver per Koko's instructions

[misssmountain 67]

 

As I await your responses, I have dosed the main tank with 1 tsp per 10 gallons of EPSOM salt. 

 

I hope this is okay, and that it won't affect the healthy fish.

 

Come to think of it, I have noticed a lot of long, stringy white poop in the tank over the last week or so, but I didn't think much of it because everyone seemed healthy and fine. Could she be eggbound possibly?

I  like you to order some colloidal silver 50ppm min.

 

Im going to ask you to put that in the main tank since you (i think) have two dropied fish?

 

 

Silver is on order. I paid for expedited shipping so it will be here sometime tomorrow.

 

It is 50ppm. Can you tell me the dosage for my 60 gallon tank?

 

Should I also treat the blue fish with any antibiotics or should the silver be enough? Also, I'm assuming it will be fine for my (so far) unaffected fish?

Edited August 11, 2016 by misssmountain

[misssmountain 67]

 

Here is a pic of the weird foamy/floaty lotus things...

[koko 14,340]

 

 

As I await your responses, I have dosed the main tank with 1 tsp per 10 gallons of EPSOM salt. 

 

I hope this is okay, and that it won't affect the healthy fish.

 

Come to think of it, I have noticed a lot of long, stringy white poop in the tank over the last week or so, but I didn't think much of it because everyone seemed healthy and fine. Could she be eggbound possibly?

I  like you to order some colloidal silver 50ppm min.

 

Im going to ask you to put that in the main tank since you (i think) have two dropied fish?

 

 

Silver is on order. I paid for expedited shipping so it will be here sometime tomorrow.

 

It is 50ppm. Can you tell me the dosage for my 60 gallon tank?

 

Should I also treat the blue fish with any antibiotics or should the silver be enough? Also, I'm assuming it will be fine for my (so far) unaffected fish?

 

 

Okay hun... Just so I know whats what...

 

Who is in the main tank? Who is in QT... The silver in the tank is going to kill off any bad bacteria. I would suggest starting at 10 drops if you have a dropper on if not lets do 1/8 of a teaspoon.

 

It wont hurt the fish at all, if anything it could help them.

[misssmountain 67]

 

 

 

As I await your responses, I have dosed the main tank with 1 tsp per 10 gallons of EPSOM salt. 

 

I hope this is okay, and that it won't affect the healthy fish.

 

Come to think of it, I have noticed a lot of long, stringy white poop in the tank over the last week or so, but I didn't think much of it because everyone seemed healthy and fine. Could she be eggbound possibly?

I  like you to order some colloidal silver 50ppm min.

 

Im going to ask you to put that in the main tank since you (i think) have two dropied fish?

 

 

Silver is on order. I paid for expedited shipping so it will be here sometime tomorrow.

 

It is 50ppm. Can you tell me the dosage for my 60 gallon tank?

 

Should I also treat the blue fish with any antibiotics or should the silver be enough? Also, I'm assuming it will be fine for my (so far) unaffected fish?

 

 

Okay hun... Just so I know whats what...

 

Who is in the main tank? Who is in QT... The silver in the tank is going to kill off any bad bacteria. I would suggest starting at 10 drops if you have a dropper on if not lets do 1/8 of a teaspoon.

 

It wont hurt the fish at all, if anything it could help them.

 

 

Main tank:

 

Stormy (blue oranda in these photos, with the bloating and slight pineconing)

Large Marge (red/white oranda, so far so good)

 

QT:

 

Nacho (fish who was pineconing, treated with Metro and Kana, scales still looking a bit rough around the edges but all in all she's looking much better)

 

 

Arctic Mamma and I were discussing in this thread (http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/124719-dropsy-almost-cured-fluid-rings-around-eyes-remain/) to now move Nacho back to the main tank, and put Stormy in the QT, so that we can medicate Stormy if needed, which is fine with me. Sound like a plan?

 

And yes, the silver I ordered comes with a dropper

[koko 14,340]

 

 

 

 

As I await your responses, I have dosed the main tank with 1 tsp per 10 gallons of EPSOM salt. 

 

I hope this is okay, and that it won't affect the healthy fish.

 

Come to think of it, I have noticed a lot of long, stringy white poop in the tank over the last week or so, but I didn't think much of it because everyone seemed healthy and fine. Could she be eggbound possibly?

I  like you to order some colloidal silver 50ppm min.

 

Im going to ask you to put that in the main tank since you (i think) have two dropied fish?

 

 

Silver is on order. I paid for expedited shipping so it will be here sometime tomorrow.

 

It is 50ppm. Can you tell me the dosage for my 60 gallon tank?

 

Should I also treat the blue fish with any antibiotics or should the silver be enough? Also, I'm assuming it will be fine for my (so far) unaffected fish?

 

 

Okay hun... Just so I know whats what...

 

Who is in the main tank? Who is in QT... The silver in the tank is going to kill off any bad bacteria. I would suggest starting at 10 drops if you have a dropper on if not lets do 1/8 of a teaspoon.

 

It wont hurt the fish at all, if anything it could help them.

 

 

Main tank:

 

Stormy (blue oranda in these photos, with the bloating and slight pineconing)

Large Marge (red/white oranda, so far so good)

 

QT:

 

Nacho (fish who was pineconing, treated with Metro and Kana, scales still looking a bit rough around the edges but all in all she's looking much better)

 

 

Arctic Mamma and I were discussing in this thread (http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/124719-dropsy-almost-cured-fluid-rings-around-eyes-remain/) to now move Nacho back to the main tank, and put Stormy in the QT, so that we can medicate Stormy if needed, which is fine with me. Sound like a plan?

 

And yes, the silver I ordered comes with a dropper

 

 

Sounds great hun

[misssmountain 67]

 

 

 

 

Sounds great hun

 

 

Will do.

 

I know I'll definitely want to add epsom salt to the QT with Stormy, and then should I just wait on further instructions for what meds to add? I have kana, metro, and of course the silver by tomorrow.

 

She's a bit more bloated today...honestly she's not fully pineconed, I think just some of the scales in front are a bit raised (I'm guessing just from the bloating, but of course I'm not sure). Same as the photos from last night. But I want to wait until tomorrow to put her in the QT, so that I can treat the 60g with silver before I put Nacho back in.

 

Thanks

[koko 14,340]

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds great hun

 

 

Will do.

 

I know I'll definitely want to add epsom salt to the QT with Stormy, and then should I just wait on further instructions for what meds to add? I have kana, metro, and of course the silver by tomorrow.

 

She's a bit more bloated today...honestly she's not fully pineconed, I think just some of the scales in front are a bit raised (I'm guessing just from the bloating, but of course I'm not sure). Same as the photos from last night. But I want to wait until tomorrow to put her in the QT, so that I can treat the 60g with silver before I put Nacho back in.

 

Thanks

 

All your going to want in the main tank is water and silver well and all the other stuff

[misssmountain 67]

Sounds great hun

 

Will do.

 

I know I'll definitely want to add epsom salt to the QT with Stormy, and then should I just wait on further instructions for what meds to add? I have kana, metro, and of course the silver by tomorrow.

 

She's a bit more bloated today...honestly she's not fully pineconed, I think just some of the scales in front are a bit raised (I'm guessing just from the bloating, but of course I'm not sure). Same as the photos from last night. But I want to wait until tomorrow to put her in the QT, so that I can treat the 60g with silver before I put Nacho back in.

 

Thanks

:thumbup2:All your going to want in the main tank is water and silver well and all the other stuff

Got it And what should I add in the 10g QT with Stormy?

[Speckles 1,178]

OMG, I hope everyone feels better soon!

[koko 14,340]

Sounds great hun

Will do.

I know I'll definitely want to add epsom salt to the QT with Stormy, and then should I just wait on further instructions for what meds to add? I have kana, metro, and of course the silver by tomorrow.

She's a bit more bloated today...honestly she's not fully pineconed, I think just some of the scales in front are a bit raised (I'm guessing just from the bloating, but of course I'm not sure). Same as the photos from last night. But I want to wait until tomorrow to put her in the QT, so that I can treat the 60g with silver before I put Nacho back in.

Thanks

:thumbup2:All your going to want in the main tank is water and silver well and all the other stuff

Got it And what should I add in the 10g QT with Stormy?

Let AM and Helen deal with the qt tank....dont want to get confusing

[DawnMichele 6,045]

How is your Oranda doing?

[misssmountain 67]

How is your Oranda doing?

 

Thank you for asking...she is crazy bloated now, looks like she's about to pop  

 

I added 10 drops of the 50ppm colloidal silver to the 60g today.

 

Since I hadn't heard any further instructions for Stormy in the QT, I made the call last night to add epsom, Kanaplex, and Metroplex. She had gotten worse throughout the day and I didn't want her to go through the night without any meds at all, so I just did what I recently did with Nacho who seems to have made as good a recovery as I could have hoped for. If anything I have done is incorrect, or if I should do something different, by all means, please let me know. I wasn't sure if I should add silver into the QT as well or not, so I haven't yet.

 

The silver lining is she is still acting like herself, and eating (although I've fed very little due to the QT situation/bloating, I more just wanted to see if she actually had an appetite, which she does). I spent some time today hanging out with her near the QT tank and she seemed happy to hang out with me near the surface, begging for food, of course.

 

For the silver in the main tank -- is it just one dose, or something I will want to repeat in the future?

[koko 14,340]

Im sorry no one has answered on the other fish. Does that fish have its own thread or is it mix in with this one?

 

I would like you to add the silver everytime you do a water change for at least (if we can) 3 weeks

 

An no dont add Silver to anything but salt...

[misssmountain 67]

Im sorry no one has answered on the other fish. Does that fish have its own thread or is it mix in with this one?

 

I would like you to add the silver everytime you do a water change for at least (if we can) 3 weeks

 

An no dont add Silver to anything but salt...

No worries. This is the main thread for this fish (with the disease form, photos, etc.)

I can definitely add the silver at each WC.

Currently there is 0.1% salt in the tank.

[Arctic Mama 3,625]

I'm sorry, I was hoping some of the other team would step up to help here because we are really busy right now at my place. However if you can be patient I will try to assist.

The kanaplex is a poor choice whenever swelling is present. If she is just pineconing in that one area I'd suspect a possible blockage or infection of one organ but not body wide. Instead I'd push the metro, Epsom, and feed only the oxytetracycline food for two weeks on all the meds. Please make sure you are feeding the fish by the instructions I posted on the last thread, because this has moved very quickly and we really need to full strength of those antibiotics to have the best chance of knocking this back. You will be okay to discontinue the kanaplex since we are using another similar antibiotic and in case the swelling is due to kidney or liver issues already I don't want to risk exacerbating it.

So treat as follows:

Remove all sodium chloride - never salt during dropsy unless specifically directed, it can make it worse quite quickly

Heat up to 78 degrees if she will tolerate it, move it slowly.

Daily 100% water changes

Dose 1/2 teaspoon Epsom per ten gallons each change, along with two measures of metro and 2% body weight of the fish in grams of oxytetracycline food each day, fed in the short burst method. Do NOT let that last one hang around in the water, or the medicine will be diluted quickly.

Improvement or an arresting of further swelling should be seen in four or five days if the treatment is working. When you get time can we have a new top view of the fish, as well as side view and belly shots? Thanks!

Edited August 13, 2016 by Arctic Mama