Jump to content

Help please. Raised scales, ick, ammonia burn...


Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

Do you know your water hardness?

 

No, I sure don't :/

 

Let's stop the Malachite Green and Epsom Salt after today.  I believe that will be 14 days for the MG and Magnesium (in Epsom) can interfere with Oxytetracycline's efficacy when added to the water.  Keep the Focus+Metroplex food going, but make sure she eats it all in 1-2 minutes and remove any uneaten food.

 

Ok, sounds good. Yes, I meant oxytetracycline. I have tetracycline (but not using it) in my box-o-fish meds as well so I said the wrong thing. Just out of sheer curiosity, I know the molecular difference is the oxygen molecule, so performance wise, what makes it vastly different?

 

I'll feed a bit less and keep an eye on how long she eats. She's always scavenging for food but the homemade stuff can be a little messy so I'm assuming some is getting missed.

 

So tomorrow I'll check water numbers, do the 100% change, and only add the oxytetracycline to the tank, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 106
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Regular Member

Sounds Good.  Oxytetracycline is more broad spectrum than Tetracycline.

 

Gotcha. I had to pull all kinds of strings to get oxytetracycline to me earlier than September so I was wondering what made it special. Glad I have it.

 

I'll let you know how things go tomorrow! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

 

Sounds Good.  Oxytetracycline is more broad spectrum than Tetracycline.

 

Gotcha. I had to pull all kinds of strings to get oxytetracycline to me earlier than September so I was wondering what made it special. Glad I have it.

 

I'll let you know how things go tomorrow! :)

 

There is also a great deal of bacterial resistance to Tetracycline nowadays.   

Edited by Jared
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

She seemed to be acting alright this morning. The blotches are about the same.

 

The scales aren't pineconed but it appears that a few may be curling upward. I don't know. I'm beginning to get discouraged. I'm working late tonight but I'll get you all the numbers before the w/c.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

She seemed to be acting alright this morning. The blotches are about the same.

 

The scales aren't pineconed but it appears that a few may be curling upward. I don't know. I'm beginning to get discouraged. I'm working late tonight but I'll get you all the numbers before the w/c.

Don't get discouraged.  It will take at least 3 days for the Oxytetracycline to have any effect. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks. I appreciate the encouragement. It's the ammonia readings that are bothering me the most, to be honest.

 

This evening they are

Ammonia 1.0

Nitrate 0

Nitrite 0

pH 7.4

Temp 76

 

I fed her much less this morning and still with the ammonia...

 

This may sound insane or I may be an idiot for not thinking of this sooner... but while I was beating myself up while trying to figure out why the ammonia is high, I realized her QT tank is on a table next to the litter box. Now I am NOT a nasty person or anything, I clean the box twice a day, but I can't help but notice that I bought the more powerful air pump and air disc on Aug 5th and we started getting the high readings on Aug 6th. Is it possible that the ammonia from the urine is in the air around the litter box and is being transferred into the water via the air pump? Once again, I am not a slob and I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I have a tank anywhere near a litter box but I don't have the largest of houses.

 

Edit: The table/counter thing is about 3'6 high and the cat box is on the floor about 5' away.

 

Either way, I moved the tank to the kitchen counter during tonight's water change and even if my idea is ridiculous and it makes no difference at all, I feel better that it's not near a cat potty.

 

Physically, she looks pretty good. Very swimmy and hungry. The splotches look about the same, I don't see the curling of the scales that I mentioned earlier... I may just be really tired right now or it could have been bad lighting this morning.

 

I'll give you updates and new numbers tomorrow. Thank you again.

Edited by Emily
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks. I appreciate the encouragement. It's the ammonia readings that are bothering me the most, to be honest.

 

This evening they are

Ammonia 1.0

Nitrate 0

Nitrite 0

pH 7.4

Temp 76

 

I fed her much less this morning and still with the ammonia...

 

This may sound insane or I may be an idiot for not thinking of this sooner... but while I was beating myself up while trying to figure out why the ammonia is high, I realized her QT tank is on a table next to the litter box. Now I am NOT a nasty person or anything, I clean the box twice a day, but I can't help but notice that I bought the more powerful air pump and air disc on Aug 5th and we started getting the high readings on Aug 6th. Is it possible that the ammonia from the urine is in the air around the litter box and is being transferred into the water via the air pump? Once again, I am not a slob and I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I have a tank anywhere near a litter box but I don't have the largest of houses.

 

Edit: The table/counter thing is about 3'6 high and the cat box is on the floor about 5' away.

 

Either way, I moved the tank to the kitchen counter during tonight's water change and even if my idea is ridiculous and it makes no difference at all, I feel better that it's not near a cat potty.

 

Physically, she looks pretty good. Very swimmy and hungry. The splotches look about the same, I don't see the curling of the scales that I mentioned earlier... I may just be really tired right now or it could have been bad lighting this morning.

 

I'll give you updates and new numbers tomorrow. Thank you again.

Hmmm....I doubt it's the litter, but who knows.  However, 1.0 ammonia is better the 2.0 ammonia and can be managed with Prime and water changes.  I am glad she seems stable :)

Edited by Jared
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Ammonia - somewhere between .5 and 1.0

Nitrate 0

Nitrite 0

p.H 7.4

Temp 76

 

The splotches aren't spreading, they look more isolated and are a brighter red. Everything else is the same. You said the oxytetracycline takes a few days to kick in... so I guess now it's a waiting game?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Ammonia - somewhere between .5 and 1.0

Nitrate 0

Nitrite 0

p.H 7.4

Temp 76

 

The splotches aren't spreading, they look more isolated and are a brighter red. Everything else is the same. You said the oxytetracycline takes a few days to kick in... so I guess now it's a waiting game?

Yes.  If the Oxytetracycline doesn't improve this in a day or so, we can try feeding it rather than adding it to the water.  If that fails, the only other antibiotic I can think to try is Kanaplex, which I have been avoiding because of the Dropsy.  It can help or hurt as it may affect the kidneys.

Edited by Jared
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Okay, I've been mulling your case over and did some reading.  Here's what I think:  

 

1) In most cases, antibiotics don't eradicate the pathogenic bacteria.  They only reduce the bacteria population, allowing the fish's immune system to catch up and overcome the infection.  With the ammonia spiking, it is much harder for your fish's immune system to accomplish this.  Therefore, I think keeping the ammonia and nitrite at zero is paramount.  Continuing daily 100% water changes and adding double Prime daily without any exceptions should be the primary medicine, even when the fish recovers.  

 

2) I think it would be good for you to get a KH/GH test and test your tap water.  Do you know if your water is hard or soft?  This can effect the efficacy of some antibiotics including Oxytetracycline.  This (I believe) is why Arctic Mama asked about The GH/KH.  It is also important for ensuring pH stability.

 

3) We need to formulate a plan for getting a tank cycled for your fish as soon as possible for when she is well.  She is in the main tank now, correct?  Do you have another tank?

Edited by Jared
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

 

 

 

This place hasn't changed a bit :heart

 

I think so too.... :hi hun.. :)

 

 

 

Hi Koko!!! I've missed you all, especially since I got rid of facebook :( It's good to hear from you.

 

 

Okay, I've been mulling your case over and did some reading.  Here's what I think:  

 

1) In most cases, antibiotics don't eradicate the pathogenic bacteria.  They only reduce the bacteria population, allowing the fish's immune system to catch up and overcome the infection.  With the ammonia spiking, it is much harder for your fish's immune system to accomplish this.  Therefore, I think keeping the ammonia and nitrite at zero is paramount.  Continuing daily 100% water changes and adding double Prime daily without any exceptions should be the primary medicine, even when the fish recovers.  

 

2) I think it would be good for you to get a KH/GH test and test your tap water.  Do you know if your water is hard or soft?  This can effect the efficacy of some antibiotics including Oxytetracycline.  This (I believe) is why Arctic Mama asked about The GH/KH.  It is also important for ensuring pH stability.

 

3) We need to formulate a plan for getting a tank cycled for your fish as soon as possible for when she is well.  She is in the main tank now, correct?  Do you have another tank?

 

1) I'm doing my absolute best to keep the ammonia down. I'll keep doing the changes as long as I need to, but like you, I don't see how that will get me anywhere in the long run.

 

2) I don't know about the hardness of my water... I just know that I'm on city water and I've never had a problem with it in the past. I'll get a test as soon as I can. I'm also a student and I just paid almost $1,000 in books... I didn't budget so much for this fish.

 

3) No, she is in a 20 gal QT. I have a main 55 gallon. It ran flawlessly for almost 3 years until something happened and all the fish dropsied. I treated the tank with epsom and what little metro med I had left but all but one died within 48 hours. He's currently in there by himself. The wipeout only happened a couple months ago and I don't trust it. As a matter of fact, I told myself that once that "batch" in the 55 died, I was done with fish (which is why I kinda drifted from Koko's :( ) ... and then I went and asked for this ranchu and I'm regretting it like mad.

 

I just wanted to downsize. I wanted the ranchu's 20 gal to cycle so once the survivor in the 55 died (he's quite old, bless him), I could just have a nice ranchu in a nice 20 gallon tank and get rid of the 55 forever. I don't want any more tanks and I can't justify trying to seed with the 55 media or putting her in there because the wipeout happened so recently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Okay, I totally understand. 

 

See if you can get a free local water report from your city water council.  It should list the hardness.  You can also check with your local fish store to see if they can test your GH/KH for you for free.

 

So, to be clear, you do not intend on adding this Chu to the cycled 55 ever, correct?  The goal is to get this fish well, get this 20 cycled and make that the permanent home for this fish...yes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Ammonia 1.0

Nitrate 0

Nitrite 0

p.H 7.6 (maybe 7.4)

Temp 74

 

The left side is healing really well. The right still looks a little sketchy and red, but she still has a massive appetite and is quite swimmy and curious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Okay, let's go ahead and stop the Focus/Metro food.  It has been 15 days, which should be enough.  So far:

 

1) We have cleared the Ich :nana

2) We have reversed the Dropsy :nana

3) We are making progress with the red blotches :nana

4) We still have an ammonia issue  :wall

 

I would now like you to fast the fish for tonight and tomorrow and then give me an ammonia reading tomorrow night.  No food!  I know it's hard, but We need to get a handle on this ammonia.  You are being so good about water changes, that I feel like it must be the food.  

 

Keep the Oxytetracycline going.  Today is day 4, correct?

Edited by Jared
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Haha, I'm sorry... your emjois made me laugh.

 

Ok I can do that. I fed her this morning but I'll fast tonight, do the w/c, and give you readings tomorrow night.

 

Just so you know, I'm leaving for another horse show tomorrow so it will be my husband testing the water, doing w/c's, and relaying info to me until Sunday night. Like I said earlier, he used to raise discus so he's pretty good at testing and taking instruction ;) I'll pre make a bit of food for him to use that I've been feeding in case we go back to the usual feeding routine, just to remove variables.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Helper

At this point as long as he is keeping up on water changes you should be fine. As Jared said you've surmounted the worst issues and the rest are likely to improve as he fish strengthens itself in a stable environment. Oxy is super easy to dose and nicely compatible with daily water changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Today was crazy and I wasn't able to get the results before everything was closed.

 

I'm feeling good because she looks good. That one side looks a little sad/red still but the other side appears almost healed.

 

Ammonia .75

Nitrate 0

Nitrite 0

pH 7.4

Temp 76

 

I'll either have my husband logon to my account tomorrow night to give you readings or I'll have him relay them to me and I'll get them to you. The hotel has wifi but if it's down, I'll just use my phone.

 

I wish I could hug you guys when this is over, whatever the outcome. I really appreciate your help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Oh, and if we are successful, remember the new 2016 Kokos Caveat:

 

All cute ranchus that are cured with Jared's help must be sent to him for his personal collection  :rules:

 

:rofl

Edited by Jared
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...