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Bubbles Bottom-sitting in QT


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I have a new young lion head goldfish named Bubbles in QT since I bought it on June 18th. Bubbles seems unhappy in the QT tank, either hiding behind a plastic plant decoration (from the main tank) or bottom sitting, but comes slowly to the front of the tank to stare at me whenever I approach.

 

The QT tank in on the floor, and I cover it with cardboard every evening to give Bubbles some privacy. I put Bubbles into a small plastic "Betta" tank for a few minutes while I do my daily water change in the QT tank. Bubbles bottom sits in the Betta tank, too.

 

I'm wondering why Bubbles is so shy and bottom sits so much. Bubbles seemed very healthy at the store when I bought her. Any suggestions on how I should change her QT treatment, or is this normal behavior?

 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)  less than 5
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) .25
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.2
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)   8.2
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API freshwater master drops
      • * Water temperature?  78
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?  QT tank, 10 gallons. 
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? no filter
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? 100 percent every day since June 18th.
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 100 percent today
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 young lion head fish, fresh from the store 
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Give the brand, type of food (sinking/floating pellets, gel food, steamed vegetable, etc.), and how frequently you feed each. Hikari Lionhead goldfish small sinking pellets, 3-5 pellets, twice a day
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? Nope, just Bubbles in QT 
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Prazi and aquarium salt
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  treated with 1/2 teaspoon Prazi daily after 100 percent water change since June 18th. treated with aquarium salt, started with two tablespoons for 4 days, then reduced to one tablespoon with daily water changes.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? no outward problems at all
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? lots of bottom sitting and hiding at the back of the QT tank, with some swimming around slowly. Bubbles was more active after I reduced the aquarium salt. Bubbles does swim over slowly to eat the food pellets, but eats very slowly. Bubbles does come to the front of the tank to stare at me. 

Here's Bubbles in the Betta tank waiting for today's water change

BubblesinQT_zpsbzd38shd.jpg

 

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He doesn't look happy at all does he! His fins look clamped, I'd consider treating him for an infection. Metronidazole is a great choice because it is antiparasitic as well, but General Cure has both the metronidazole AND prazi, killing two birds with one stone. A two week course of either would be a good choice and if he is still bottom sitting and clamped we can move on from there.

How is his poop?

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He doesn't look happy at all does he! His fins look clamped, I'd consider treating him for an infection. Metronidazole is a great choice because it is antiparasitic as well, but General Cure has both the metronidazole AND prazi, killing two birds with one stone. A two week course of either would be a good choice and if he is still bottom sitting and clamped we can move on from there.

How is his poop?

 

 

His poop looks okay--short, light brown bits. Nothing stringy or clear.

 

I have some old Metro Meds from about a year ago. Could I feed him those along with the Prazi treatment?

 

Also, I've been treating with Prazi for a week now. Are you suggesting an additional 2 week treatment?

 

And should I continue with the salt treatment?

 

Thanks for the help! :)

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The metromeds are likely too old to be very effective, the food goes rancid and the antibiotics lose strength with time and exposure to those natural oils. I'd prefer a new powdered med, myself.

The prazi should definitely be done for several rounds, and continuing it through the treatment is a good idea especially if you choose the GC. Some of the bottom sitting could very well be from flukes detaching and irritation or a infection from that.

You can also continue the low levels of salt through the treatment, or stop them. Your choice. If he is acting stressed stop the salt, if not it's fine to continue.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Did you test your tank water before the water change (what we want) or after?  If before, your tank appears cycled, which seems odd after just 9 days. If after, I don't know what happened to the ammonia in your tap water.

 

Bubbles appears large in that betta tank.   Can you please estimate his standard (not including tail) length?  

 

Some fish bottom sit during  prazi treatment.  The stuff tastes pretty bad.  

 

Some fish pout when alone.

 

I don't disagree with Taryl's recommendation at all, but I 'd like you to do a little test.  Before starting the second week of prazi treatment or starting General Cure, change all of the water and don't add salt or Prazi.  Give him a day of plain water and tell us if anything changes.   If he perks up, add prazi, but no salt to see if that makes him lethargic.

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The metromeds are likely too old to be very effective, the food goes rancid and the antibiotics lose strength with time and exposure to those natural oils. I'd prefer a new powdered med, myself.

The prazi should definitely be done for several rounds, and continuing it through the treatment is a good idea especially if you choose the GC. Some of the bottom sitting could very well be from flukes detaching and irritation or a infection from that.

You can also continue the low levels of salt through the treatment, or stop them. Your choice. If he is acting stressed stop the salt, if not it's fine to continue.

 

 

I ordered the API General Cure from Amazon. It should be here tomorrow. I'm going to stop the salt treatment for a couple of days and see if it makes any difference. Thanks again for your help! :)

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Did you test your tank water before the water change (what we want) or after?  If before, your tank appears cycled, which seems odd after just 9 days. If after, I don't know what happened to the ammonia in your tap water.

 

Bubbles appears large in that betta tank.   Can you please estimate his standard (not including tail) length?  

 

Some fish bottom sit during  prazi treatment.  The stuff tastes pretty bad.  

 

Some fish pout when alone.

 

I don't disagree with Taryl's recommendation at all, but I 'd like you to do a little test.  Before starting the second week of prazi treatment or starting General Cure, change all of the water and don't add salt or Prazi.  Give him a day of plain water and tell us if anything changes.   If he perks up, add prazi, but no salt to see if that makes him lethargic.

 

I did the water tests just before the daily water change. Here are the results from today's QT water test, taken before the water change:

temperature: 74 degrees F

pH: 7.8

ammonia: .25 ppm

nitrite: 0

nitrate: < 5.0 ppm

 

Bubbles appears to be between 1.5 and 2 inches (or 4.5 centimeters) not including the tail. It's hard to measure him when he's hiding.  :peeka

 

I'll try today's water change without prazi and salt and let you know how Bubbles is doing tomorrow. I should get the API General Cure from Amazon tomorrow, too.

 

Thanks so much for your help and suggestions! :)

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Hope Bubbles feels better.

 

Thank you. :)

 

Bubbles does seem to be swimming around a bit more today, now that I've backed off on the salt. I'm going to give him a day off of the Prazi too, before his next round, and see how he does. He's such a pretty little fish. 

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Shakaho made an important point - some fish, including a few of mine, dislike salt even at low levels. His body shape and head size proportional to his body is more concerning to me combined with his symptoms, but some of the bottom sitting could be related to irritation over the current treatment.

Definitely do her test and report back. It won't change my general cure recommendation, but it might change whether we proceed with salt at all.

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Shakaho made an important point - some fish, including a few of mine, dislike salt even at low levels. His body shape and head size proportional to his body is more concerning to me combined with his symptoms, but some of the bottom sitting could be related to irritation over the current treatment.

Definitely do her test and report back. It won't change my general cure recommendation, but it might change whether we proceed with salt at all.

 

 

What is it about his body shape and head size proportions that concerns you? Is it stunted growth? What can I do about it?

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His body shape is tight and submarine shaped, which I've seen associated with early stage internal bacterial infections. His small tummy compared to his head also indicates he isn't eating well. He is more slim through the belly then he should be for a healthy juvenile fish and certainly an adult. These are symptoms I take to mean sickness of some kind, bacterial or parasitic, especially when combined with the bottom sitting and less than voracious eating. Goldfish should feed like piranhas. I have a few who even leap at and break the surface of the water. A fish who is slow to eat and doesn't forage around for munchies isn't a good sign.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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I have an update for Bubbles in QT. I think I made a big mistake, and am now regretting it. :(

 

Bubbles looked so miserable with the prazi and salt treatment that I gave her 3 days off with just 100% WC and no medicine. At first, Bubbles looked really happy and was swimming all around the QT tank, but late last night I noticed she was bottom sitting and looking worse than ever, and during this morning's WC I saw a bunch of light green spots on her. I'm guessing they're flukes? :(

 

So I added the 1 percent salt back in and a packet of General Cure powder, and I'm hoping for the best. (General Cure kills off those critters, right?)

 

Unfortunately, I'm going away next weekend for 4 days, and my hubby doesn't want to deal with my fish in QT. He wants me to return Bubbles to the store. He's really pressuring me to get rid of the "sick fish" and keep looking for something healthier.

 

I was originally hoping to put Bubbles into my main tank this week, assuming she looked healthy in QT, but those green spots really (really!) ick me out and I definitely don't want flukes introduced into my main tank.

 

Should I just ask my hubby to feed Bubbles in QT for 4 days? He won't do WC or medicine. Or just return the sick fish? What do you recommend?

 

Here are my 10 gal QT tank water parameters before today's 100 percent WC:

 

temp: 72 degrees F

pH: 8.0

ammonia: .25 ppm

nitrite: 0

nitrate:  less than 5.0 ppm

 

Top View:

FullSizeRender-43_zpsbesaaxuj.jpg

 

Side View:

FullSizeRender-44_zpsttxvjual.jpg

 

Looking unhappy:

FullSizeRender-46_zpsgnsybcic.jpg

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Those look more gray/black to me. Are you seeing things I'm not? You're there and not me so please let me know.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Those look more gray/black to me. Are you seeing things I'm not? You're there and not me so please let me know.

 

 

My color vision may be off, but they look greyish-green to me.

 

Do you think they're something other than flukes?

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You can't see flukes without a microscope. 

 

Possibly ammonia burns.

 

Since your husband won't change water and your system hasn't completely cycled, he should not feed the fish.  Fasting shouldn't harm Bubbles.  I recommend you stop feeding at least a full day before you go and do a 100% water change just before you leave. 

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You can't see flukes without a microscope. 

 

Possibly ammonia burns.

 

Since your husband won't change water and your system hasn't completely cycled, he should not feed the fish.  Fasting shouldn't harm Bubbles.  I recommend you stop feeding at least a full day before you go and do a 100% water change just before you leave. 

 

 

We actually do have a microscope, so I'd like to try to see if they are flukes. Do you have a link to the process for check for flukes?

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