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lizam

Quarantine, To salt or not to salt

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So not to be a complete pain but what is the purpose of the .3% salt in quarantine for two weeks  before Prazi?

I'm just trying to learn more...I get that it may kill Costia and possibly some other parasites...is that really true now considering resistance?  The salt increases slime coat right?  Decreases stress?  Heal small wounds?  Doesn't using Prime and frequent water changes help with  those?

 

I have used .3% with other goldfish I have had in quarantine and I have done the recommended procedure the seller said to do on two of my goldfish.   As a goldfish owner I make my own choices and mistakes of course.  I joined this site before I even bought goldfish.  I read a lot of stuff, watched Tithra and Solid Gold, all before even buying goldfish.....I want to learn. I have an open thread right now about a fish with some kind of issue that I have been battling for 6 mos.  I am at that point in that thread of, "To salt or not salt?"

 

I have done a quarantine with other goldfish that includes the .3% salt solution and then did the Prazi 4 week cycle.  It seems that the 2 week in row prazi treatment is now recommended with dosing done within 4 days with salt treatment at .3% salt for a week either before or after the two week prazi treatment.  I have read both before and after.

 

Then recently I read that someone was using salt to treat their goldfish and the goldfish got fluid built up around their eyes from the salt.  That freaked me out! :yikes

 

I have 2 new goldfish in quarantine.  I'm just going to do WC every other day (has a cycled filter on the 29g tank) and watch them this week.  Clean water does wonders I think.  But then again I will get to that point of "To salt or not to salt?" :wacko:

 

I value many of the moderators/helpers and members recommendations on here.  Thanks for the help.

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:idont I think its for external parasites? I think its also something to do with slime coat as well. IDK

Edited by Speckles

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I only use meds or salt if there is a problem.

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In my personal experience, it has no effect. Got my first two fish last October. No salt, no QT, and they've never had issues with flukes or anything at all. One has a horrendous tumor, but there's absolutely NOTHING to suggest salt would have had any effect on this. The other has been 100% healthy. Got two more a few months ago. They did get salt and PraziPro, both were totally healthy, though I lost one in a filter accident. Got one more. Did Prazi and .1% salt. Perfectly fine, currently healthy. Got another one a while ago. Prazi, no salt. Almost two weeks in, developed ich. Went away quickly with addition of salt, fish developed secondary infection shortly afterwards. Currently quite sick. I am not a fan of preemptive treatments in any creatures and certainly don't think that its necessary or useful in all cases.

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I just finished one qt and finishing another for my two new fish where I used the 2 weeks of .3% salt followed by 2 weeks of prazi method.

Then I followed with 1 week of prazi in the main tank(s) with the new fish reintroduced.

I read that salt at .3% is a good idea before prazi as an additional form of parasite treatment.

Also for me, it helped because one of my fish had a tear in it's tail and the salt helped quicken the healing and fight against infections.

Good luck with your qt.

Edited by Mr. Hyde

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I just finished one qt and finishing another for my two new fish where I used the 2 weeks of .3% salt followed by 2 weeks of prazi method.

Then I followed with 1 week of prazi in the main tank(s) with the new fish reintroduced.

I read that salt at .3% is a good idea before prazi as an additional form of parasite treatment.

Also for me, it helped because one of my fish had a tear in it's tail and the salt helped quicken the healing and fight against infections.

Good luck with your qt.

Yes I read the thread.  Your new goldfish are beautiful :)  Thank you, my new two came to me looking extremely healthy so I don't foresee any issues :)

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In my personal experience, it has no effect. Got my first two fish last October. No salt, no QT, and they've never had issues with flukes or anything at all. One has a horrendous tumor, but there's absolutely NOTHING to suggest salt would have had any effect on this. The other has been 100% healthy. Got two more a few months ago. They did get salt and PraziPro, both were totally healthy, though I lost one in a filter accident. Got one more. Did Prazi and .1% salt. Perfectly fine, currently healthy. Got another one a while ago. Prazi, no salt. Almost two weeks in, developed ich. Went away quickly with addition of salt, fish developed secondary infection shortly afterwards. Currently quite sick. I am not a fan of preemptive treatments in any creatures and certainly don't think that its necessary or useful in all cases.

Sorry to hear about your fish.  I hope he/she gets better!  I hate when they get sick.  And I do agree not all preemptive treatments are necessary or useful for sure :)

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Ultimately I just want to make better more informed choices when it comes to my fish.

 

I guess the crux of my question is  related to slime coat.  I believe salt does kill some parasites due to not being able to tolerate the osmotic pressure the salinity in the water creates or something like that...?  Parasites will irritate the fish's skin and gills so the fish attempts to shed its slime coat.  So then salt (which I have read some people say acts like an irritant allows the fish to produces more slime coat) builds new slime coat to protect the fish?  :idont  On humans we use saline solution to clean wounds.  So there is a bacterial element to all of this too I guess.

 

 

 

Before I subject either my two new fish or my sick fish, Elton, to .3% solution of salt, I want to better understand why I am doing it.  

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If a fish is showing signs of parasites then salt and heat are a great first step. I prazi my goldfish in quarantine because almost all of them have had obvious signs of flukes.

But if they aren't flashing, breathing heavily, or have excess slime coat I do NOT salt in quarantine as a rule. It's mostly because I'm lazy, but I raise the heat enough that everything I'd be worried about will show itself before the quarantine is over. I keep them in QT at least two months and have not had to salt any fish in there. Prazi? Yes, absolutely. Salt? Not so much.

If they were coming from a pet store that had ich active in any tank I'd likely salt as well. But it's never been needed. I observe in quarantine and treat if symptoms arise.

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Ultimately I just want to make better more informed choices when it comes to my fish.

I guess the crux of my question is related to slime coat. I believe salt does kill some parasites due to not being able to tolerate the osmotic pressure the salinity in the water creates or something like that...? Parasites will irritate the fish's skin and gills so the fish attempts to shed its slime coat. So then salt (which I have read some people say acts like an irritant allows the fish to produces more slime coat) builds new slime coat to protect the fish? :idont On humans we use saline solution to clean wounds. So there is a bacterial element to all of this too I guess.

Before I subject either my two new fish or my sick fish, Elton, to .3% solution of salt, I want to better understand why I am doing it.

For sick fish, especially those showing unspecified symptoms or external infections, salt helps slough off the slime coat and interrupts the attachment of many kinds of external parasites, as well as keeping any wounds from becoming infected. It works very well in those capacities. Some of the breeders are observing that higher salt (.5%) is more effective now because many parasites have become resistant to salt due to people keeping low levels of it in their tanks constantly, and some of us prefer salt dips for certain symptoms because it allows other treatments to be more effective (when your ectoparasite is essentially protected from the treatment *by* the slime coat).

For new fish with no symptoms, the thought behind it is to help the fish's immune system by bolstering slime coat production, as well as interfering with any conditions like ich or costia that are salt sensitive and can wipe out a tank. I find that time and heat has worked well to produce any response I may get from parasites and then only salt if needed, but the recommendation stands as a good practice for those who may be tempted to do shorter quarantines and therefore introduce an immature parasite to the tank accidentally.

Prophylactic salt isn't something I've found necessary but oftentimes here on Koko's we are seeing fish from dodgy sources, with lesions, behavioral cues, or other red flags that necessitate low levels of treatment in quarantine. What an experienced fish keeper can manage in their own tanks differs from what can be managed by a new hobbyist. We want to give the fish the best chance of health and the owner the best chance of success with the least drama - and since most do not yet have the experience to evaluate a fish for more subtle signs of problems having a basic quarantine procedure that covers the most common ailments that might pop up is prudent.

I don't believe most of us more seasoned aquarists follow the guidelines on here to a T, as we have adjusted them for our own husbandry practices and stock. But for a beginning primer they work well to avoid the biggest pitfalls we see in these tanks - flukes, ich, and secondary bacterial infections from poor water conditions or parasites.

Does that help?

Edited by Arctic Mama

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Ultimately I just want to make better more informed choices when it comes to my fish.

I guess the crux of my question is related to slime coat. I believe salt does kill some parasites due to not being able to tolerate the osmotic pressure the salinity in the water creates or something like that...? Parasites will irritate the fish's skin and gills so the fish attempts to shed its slime coat. So then salt (which I have read some people say acts like an irritant allows the fish to produces more slime coat) builds new slime coat to protect the fish? :idont On humans we use saline solution to clean wounds. So there is a bacterial element to all of this too I guess.

Before I subject either my two new fish or my sick fish, Elton, to .3% solution of salt, I want to better understand why I am doing it.

For sick fish, especially those showing unspecified symptoms or external infections, salt helps slough off the slime coat and interrupts the attachment of many kinds of external parasites, as well as keeping any wounds from becoming infected. It works very well in those capacities. Some of the breeders are observing that higher salt (.5%) is more effective now because many parasites have become resistant to salt due to people keeping low levels of it in their tanks constantly, and some of us prefer salt dips for certain symptoms because it allows other treatments to be more effective (when your ectoparasite is essentially protected from the treatment *by* the slime coat).

For new fish with no symptoms, the thought behind it is to help the fish's immune system by bolstering slime coat production, as well as interfering with any conditions like ich or costia that are salt sensitive and can wipe out a tank. I find that time and heat has worked well to produce any response I may get from parasites and then only salt if needed, but the recommendation stands as a good practice for those who may be tempted to do shorter quarantines and therefore introduce an immature parasite to the tank accidentally.

Prophylactic salt isn't something I've found necessary but oftentimes here on Koko's we are seeing fish from dodgy sources, with lesions, behavioral cues, or other red flags that necessitate low levels of treatment in quarantine. What an experienced fish keeper can manage in their own tanks differs from what can be managed by a new hobbyist. We want to give the fish the best chance of health and the owner the best chance of success with the least drama - and since most do not yet have the experience to evaluate a fish for more subtle signs of problems having a basic quarantine procedure that covers the most common ailments that might pop up is prudent.

I don't believe most of us more seasoned aquarists follow the guidelines on here to a T, as we have adjusted them for our own husbandry practices and stock. But for a beginning primer they work well to avoid the biggest pitfalls we see in these tanks - flukes, ich, and secondary bacterial infections from poor water conditions or parasites.

Does that help?

 

Thank you very much!  That helped a great deal and your explanation helped me make my decision very easily with both of my concerns.  Much appreciated. :)

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I tend to prazi in QT but not salt unless there looks to be a problem. I've been pretty lucky with my new fish QTs and only had problems that I needed to address twice

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