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Kayla102968

Troubles with a pond goldfish again

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So, I've been having troubles with many of my 2 year old pond goldfish.  3 of them have developed a swim bladder problem...the rest seemed fine.  I noticed yesterday, that a new one was bottom sitting and not coming up for food that has previously always looked healthy and had absolutely no problems. I prazi the pond every 6 months, it's been about 2 months since I prazi'd.   I tested the water and the nitrates were between 40 and 80.  I did a couple of large water changes and am continuing to do them and have added some plants in the tops of the filters.  I brought the bottom sitter in and also brought in one of his brothers that has a swim bladder issue.  The newest bottom sitter is not eating and is breathing heavily.  Every so often he goes to the top of the 20 gallon long tank (filled 1/2 way) and lifts his head way out of the water (about an inch) and then barrel rolls at the top and then goes back down to the bottom.  It is such a strange movement.  I have searched on-line and can't find anything about fish barrel rolling in the water and what is the cause of that.  For now, I am treating him with prazi (heavy breathing and bottom sitting) and metro plus.  Should I be using salt?  Is it maybe some kind of external parasite?  Here is a video.  The fish that I'm concerned about is the blacker one that has just started bottom sitting and barrel rolling and not eating.  The white one he is with, has been a bottom sitter for a while and has developed a curve in her spine and has flattened at the bottom of her belly.  She is still eating though.

Any thoughts?

 

 

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  • Test Results for the Following:

    • * Ammonia Level(Tank):  0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank):  0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank):  40-80
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap): 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap):  0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap):  0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines):  8.0
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines):  7.1
    • Other Required Info:

      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?:  API master drops
      • * Water temperature? 64 deg
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 700 gallons - 2 years
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?  2 bucket filters; 55 gallon and 30 gallon
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? 10% a week

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  5 days before this - 10%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?  27; 12 large...the rest small
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?  Prime and oyster shell 
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?  Blackwater Koi food
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? 1 added 2 or 3 weeks ago
  • * Any medications added to the tank?  Prazi about 1 month ago
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Prazi
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?  bottom sitting, not eating, occasionally swimming up to top and coming far out of the water and gulping air, barrel rolling and going back down to the bottom.

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I think it might be 'flashing' at the top of the water...just looks strange...like a barrel roll.  I added 0.1% salt.  Don't want to add anymore until I've dosed prazi for a couple weeks.

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OK, as you have observed, your nitrate level is way too high.  I think you are looking at effects of nitrate toxicity.

 

I drip in 10% of the pond volume in fresh water every day,  have plants in every filter and use some form of additional phytofiltration  in every pond.  I feed a half teaspoon of pellets a day to my big fish,  and a quarter teaspoon to the average sized fish.  With all this, I have one pond, in deep shade, that has 20 ppm nitrate as opposed to the normal < 5ppm.  I have load that up with veggie filters, and it's looking better.  

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Here is a clearer video:  

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Sharon - Yes, I probably do overfeed for sure.  I've started cutting back.  When I added the new fish a couple of weeks ago, the nitrates weren't high at all, so this has just happened in the last week or so.  Can you reverse nitrate toxicity for this fish?  Is there anything other than clean water that can help him?  I guess I have to continue the metro now for a week.  Should I continue the prazi and 0.1% salt as well?  

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Clean water should be the best treatment.  The salt is fine.  Try feeding duckweed.  It seems to help with these ailments of unknown cause.

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So, I just have the fish in clean water now.  The black one is not eating still...not even interested.   I bought a new nitrate API test kit today since I was at the very bottom of the last one I was using.  The reading on the pond came out at 10-20 nitrates.  I only did the equivalent of about a 50% water change yesterday, so I tested the pond water using the old nitrate test and it showed between 40 and 80 still.  I don't think that old test was working.  Regardless though, I still have a fish that is not eating, bottom sitting and breathing heavy.  I do notice his gills are darker than they were a week ago.  If he got nitrate poisoning and has brown blood issues...can they improve from this or is it a lost cause?

Today I saw another white 2 year old goldfish that has a large orange colored lump on its left side.  She is acting totally fine, but there is definitely a coloration change and a lump as well as raised scales on that area.  Any ideas on what this could be?  Does she need to come in and be given metro or something?

Ack...so many problems with the fishies right now :(.

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I see Sharon has your back, so I will just wish your fish a speedy recovery and say how pretty they are :)

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Shelly!  We haven't heard anything about your pond since last fall.

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I see Sharon has your back, so I will just wish your fish a speedy recovery and say how pretty they are :)

Thank you Shelly :).

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I don't know why you have problems with your pond fish.  Perhaps your pond maintenance hasn't kept up with your fish load.  Your observation about the old nitrate test is interesting.  Mine is almost empty and I've seen some usually high readings.  

 

 Do your two filters operate each with its own pump?  Do you have any prefiltration at the pump end?  

 

I think you could use two filter upgrades.  One is mechanical prefiltration.  The best way to do this is with a retrofit bottom drain  to a settling chamber such as a radial flow filter.  The other is increased phytofiltration.  The best and simplest way to do this is to have the the biofilter empty into a veggie filter either inside or outside the pond.

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Thanks Sharon. 

He is still not eating...won't even eat blood worms and he is starting to sulk; his fins are slightly clamped and his tail is downward.  I am heading out for a short holiday and will be back tomorrow evening.  I think I will try metro and prazi when I get back again. 

Edited by Kayla102968

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Sadly, this little one passed away while I was gone :(.  I now have one other fish inside in quarantine...who is doing much better (different symptoms), and a pond full of fish not looking the best....but still acting normal....that I hope to find out how to treat soon.

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Sorry for your loss. My best to your other Goldfish.

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Thanks Dawn...I have started treating the pond today...hoping to see them looking better soon.

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I don't know why you have problems with your pond fish.  Perhaps your pond maintenance hasn't kept up with your fish load.  Your observation about the old nitrate test is interesting.  Mine is almost empty and I've seen some usually high readings.  

 

 Do your two filters operate each with its own pump?  Do you have any prefiltration at the pump end?  

Yes, my two filters each have their own laguna pump.  One is larger than the other.  I don't have any prefiltration at the pump end.

 

I think you could use two filter upgrades.  One is mechanical prefiltration.  The best way to do this is with a retrofit bottom drain  to a settling chamber such as a radial flow filter.  The other is increased phytofiltration.  The best and simplest way to do this is to have the the biofilter empty into a veggie filter either inside or outside the pond.

What kind of container would you use (best size and shape) for a veggie filter and would you just have pea gravel in it...or something else as a substrate that has more surface area?

 

Thank you :)

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