Never ending mystery parasites

[gothicchick1100]

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank): 0ppm

* Nitrite Level(Tank): 0ppm

* Nitrate level(Tank): 10-20ppm

* Ammonia Level(Tap): 0

* Nitrite Level(Tap): 0

* Nitrate level(Tap): 0

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): usually 7.8

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): 7.4

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API master kit w/ drops

* Water temperature? 20 - 22c

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 400 litres, 4 months

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? fluval fx6 canister filter

* How often do you change the water and how much? 50% every week

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, 80%

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 6 fancy goldfish, couple quite small, rest about 4 or so inches. 3 weather loaches, 1 bn plec

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Seachem Prime

* What do you feed your fish and how often? once a day, and a fast day once or twice a week. Repashy Soilet Green gel food, hikari lionhead pellets, frozen bloodworm, tubifex, peas.

* Any new fish added to the tank? Not since my bn plec around 2 months ago

* Any medications added to the tank? None

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. 7 rounds of prazi after I got my bn plec

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Excess slime coat, red patches on fins, split fins

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? General lethargy with periods of normal activity, one fish started bottom sitting friday, perked up saturday and is now sittinb again sunday. Appetite is normal in all fish.

Hi guys, I really need your help. I've had issues with sickly fish for months. General inactiviity, split fins, one of my fish has always had this white sticky out patch on his mouth, and one of my ranchu always has white spots (that look like excess slime coat) on his tail fin, both the spots and the white mouth seem to look worse sometimes and better others.

Two months ago i got two bn plecs, i totally forgot to qurantine and i'm pretty confident they introduced flukes into my tank, i treated with 7 rounds of fluke solve (no salt due to loaches and plecs) after this treatment things seemed ok for a while. Then one of my bn plecs died suddenly, no symptoms, just found him dead.

A little while ago i posted a thread on here entitled 'sickly goldfish' about one of my fantais who was bottom sitting, excess slime coat, red patches etc, well he recovered fine, until friday (today is sunday) walked in to find him displaying the exact same symptoms again, on saturday he seemed better, and now on sunday he is back to the same behaviour. One of my ranchu has also developed some very split fins that don't seem to be healing. I'm wondering if i am to blame for this as a few weeks ago i done a water change of 50% using tap water (not aged) as i complete forgot to get water ready the night before, could the drop in temperature and ph have stressed my fish and caused flukes to take hold again? Shall i do another 7 rounds of fluke solve?

All i want is happy fish, i feel like a terrible fish mumma as i have no idea why i'm having such trouble. I do have a UV sterilizer but it isn't currently conected, could this help to keep bacteria/parasites at bay?

I'll include some pictures in a sec.

[gothicchick1100]

[gothicchick1100]

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh578/k81100/Mobile%20Uploads/20160522_13

[gothicchick1100]

[gothicchick1100]

[gothicchick1100]

[koko]

Can I have a full tank view hun?

 

When was the canister cleaned ?

[gothicchick1100]

Can I have a full tank view hun?

 

When was the canister cleaned ?

Canister was cleaned about 6 weeks ago.

Picture was taken a few hours ago, I just popped in now to check on them and Sebastian (bottom sitting fish) is actually swimming around, dorsal is still somewhat clamped though.

[jmetzger72]

First of all, don't feel guilty.  This stuff can be confusing and difficult  Now, here's what I am thinking 

 

You are pushing the stocking a bit.  400 litres is about 105 gallons.  So, with just the 6 goldfish, that would be 17.5 gallons each which would be fine.  But, add the other 4 fish and the bioload is questionable.  

 

The split fins and white plaques could be from flukes.  However, I think 7-rounds is excessive.  Try this instead:  One dose of Prazi after water change.  Another dose 3-4 days later.  Repeat this for 2 weeks.  Here is an example:

 

Sun = WC, Prazi

Wed = No WC, Prazi

 

Sun = WC, Prazi

Wed = No WC, Prazi

 

Be sure to disinfect your water changer and any equipment in between water changes.  

 

Another idea I have is for you to move the weather loaches and the pleco to another tank temporarily.  This way, you could add salt to the goldfish tank which would help with these issues.  It would also rule out the possibilty that the pleco or the loaches are the cause for the split fins.  These fish are generally compatible with goldfish, but can get nippy at night if they are hungry or too crowded.

 

Let me know what you think and we can figure out your next move

Edited May 22, 2016 by Jared

[DawnMichele]

Hope your Goldfish feel better.

[gothicchick1100]

First of all, don't feel guilty.  This stuff can be confusing and difficult  Now, here's what I am thinking 

 

You are pushing the stocking a bit.  400 litres is about 105 gallons.  So, with just the 6 goldfish, that would be 17.5 gallons each which would be fine.  But, add the other 4 fish and the bioload is questionable.  

 

The split fins and white plaques could be from flukes.  However, I think 7-rounds is excessive.  Try this instead:  One dose of Prazi after water change.  Another dose 3-4 days later.  Repeat this for 2 weeks.  Here is an example:

 

Sun = WC, Prazi

Wed = No WC, Prazi

 

Sun = WC, Prazi

Wed = No WC, Prazi

 

Be sure to disinfect your water changer and any equipment in between water changes.  

 

Another idea I have is for you to move the weather loaches and the pleco to another tank temporarily.  This way, you could add salt to the goldfish tank which would help with these issues.  It would also rule out the possibilty that the pleco or the loaches are the cause for the split fins.  These fish are generally compatible with goldfish, but can get nippy at night if they are hungry or too crowded.

 

Let me know what you think and we can figure out your next move

Thanks for the reply, I've got a storage container, it holds about a maximum of 70 litres, would this be alright temporarily?, should I treat the plecos and loaches with prazi as well, as they could have flukes? But obviously no salt,

[gothicchick1100]

Hope your Goldfish feel better.

Thank you

[jmetzger72]

 

First of all, don't feel guilty.  This stuff can be confusing and difficult  Now, here's what I am thinking 

 

You are pushing the stocking a bit.  400 litres is about 105 gallons.  So, with just the 6 goldfish, that would be 17.5 gallons each which would be fine.  But, add the other 4 fish and the bioload is questionable.  

 

The split fins and white plaques could be from flukes.  However, I think 7-rounds is excessive.  Try this instead:  One dose of Prazi after water change.  Another dose 3-4 days later.  Repeat this for 2 weeks.  Here is an example:

 

Sun = WC, Prazi

Wed = No WC, Prazi

 

Sun = WC, Prazi

Wed = No WC, Prazi

 

Be sure to disinfect your water changer and any equipment in between water changes.  

 

Another idea I have is for you to move the weather loaches and the pleco to another tank temporarily.  This way, you could add salt to the goldfish tank which would help with these issues.  It would also rule out the possibilty that the pleco or the loaches are the cause for the split fins.  These fish are generally compatible with goldfish, but can get nippy at night if they are hungry or too crowded.

 

Let me know what you think and we can figure out your next move

Thanks for the reply, I've got a storage container, it holds about a maximum of 70 litres, would this be alright temporarily?, should I treat the plecos and loaches with prazi as well, as they could have flukes? But obviously no salt,

 

You'll have to keep a close eye on water parameters and do daily water changes with 4 fish in a 70L container.  I also think such close quarters would stress them.  It would probably be better to treat the one Goldfish with the white mouth in the 70L and leave the loaches and Pleco in the main tank with Prazi and no salt.  

 

Let's try this first:  Leave everyone in the main tank and just do the Prazi (with no salt) as I outlined above.  See how that goes and then we can go from there.

[gothicchick1100]

First of all, don't feel guilty.  This stuff can be confusing and difficult  Now, here's what I am thinking 

 

You are pushing the stocking a bit.  400 litres is about 105 gallons.  So, with just the 6 goldfish, that would be 17.5 gallons each which would be fine.  But, add the other 4 fish and the bioload is questionable.  

 

The split fins and white plaques could be from flukes.  However, I think 7-rounds is excessive.  Try this instead:  One dose of Prazi after water change.  Another dose 3-4 days later.  Repeat this for 2 weeks.  Here is an example:

 

Sun = WC, Prazi

Wed = No WC, Prazi

 

Sun = WC, Prazi

Wed = No WC, Prazi

 

Be sure to disinfect your water changer and any equipment in between water changes.  

 

Another idea I have is for you to move the weather loaches and the pleco to another tank temporarily.  This way, you could add salt to the goldfish tank which would help with these issues.  It would also rule out the possibilty that the pleco or the loaches are the cause for the split fins.  These fish are generally compatible with goldfish, but can get nippy at night if they are hungry or too crowded.

 

Let me know what you think and we can figure out your next move

Thanks for the reply, I've got a storage container, it holds about a maximum of 70 litres, would this be alright temporarily?, should I treat the plecos and loaches with prazi as well, as they could have flukes? But obviously no salt,

You'll have to keep a close eye on water parameters and do daily water changes with 4 fish in a 70L container.  I also think such close quarters would stress them.  It would probably be better to treat the one Goldfish with the white mouth in the 70L and leave the loaches and Pleco in the main tank with Prazi and no salt.  

 

Let's try this first:  Leave everyone in the main tank and just do the Prazi (with no salt) as I outlined above.  See how that goes and then we can go from there.

OK thank you, so I started the prazi last night. The thing is my fish has always had a white mouth, since i got him years ago, it just seems to look better sometimes and worse others. I feel more concerned about the ranchus white areas on the tail, as they haven't always been there, and they never disappear.

Checked on the tank this morning, i'my concerned that the split fins might be looking worse on the two fish that are affected, should these heal on their own?

[Arctic Mama]

I concur with Jared on the prazi schedule. We can always try something like paraguard down the line but I think addressing water quality and nailing the flukes with two good rounds should be a solid start and is very low risk to the fish.

Do consider stepping up your water change schedule to accomodate the stocking levels you have, especially as your fish grow bigger. Just as aside

As for the fins, those are a secondary symptom, not a cause or disease in and of themselves. When the underlying issue is addressed those should heal nicely with just time and clean water. Consider those fine a barometer of the fish being in remission from whatever is plaguing them.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[gothicchick1100]

I concur with Jared on the prazi schedule. We can always try something like paraguard down the line but I think addressing water quality and nailing the flukes with two good rounds should be a solid start and is very low risk to the fish.

Do consider stepping up your water change schedule to accomodate the stocking levels you have, especially as your fish grow bigger. Just as aside

As for the fins, those are a secondary symptom, not a cause or disease in and of themselves. When the underlying issue is addressed those should heal nicely with just time and clean water. Consider those fine a barometer of the fish being in remission from whatever is plaguing them.

Thank you for the reply, do you think 80% water change once per week would be enough?

[jmetzger72]

The white mouth could be a viral thing that comes and goes and could even be affected by seasonal temperature changes.   If you can, get a picture and post it.

 

If the Prazi fails to help with the split fins, we may need to look for a fin nipper among your stock 

[Arctic Mama]

As to water changes, two fifty percent changes per week is better than one eighty or one hundred percent change. Higher frequency, not higher volume.

[gothicchick1100]

The white mouth could be a viral thing that comes and goes and could even be affected by seasonal temperature changes.   If you can, get a picture and post it.

 

If the Prazi fails to help with the split fins, we may need to look for a fin nipper among your stock 

I'll try and get a picture tomorrow. Fins seem much the same today, I'm hoping it's not a fin nipper, I've had the weather loaches for around 3 years and never noticed any aggression at all, I always make sure there is algae wafers and cucumber/courgette for the bn plec as well.

[gothicchick1100]

As to water changes, two fifty percent changes per week is better than one eighty or one hundred percent change. Higher frequency, not higher volume.

Ok I see, is it always necessary to use aged water when it's 50% water change if the ph and temperature and not too different?

[gothicchick1100]

Also I've just purchased a microscope, I was thinking I could take some scrapings to better determine what these parasites are, does anybody have any knowledge/experience of this?

[jmetzger72]

 

As to water changes, two fifty percent changes per week is better than one eighty or one hundred percent change. Higher frequency, not higher volume.

Ok I see, is it always necessary to use aged water when it's 50% water change if the ph and temperature and not too different?

 

I don't used aged water for either as long as the pH and temperature match.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Jared

[Arctic Mama]

Me either, but my taps and tanks are very close and I have some of the best water in the country. It really just depends on your municipal source and your tank chemistry.

[gothicchick1100]

Little bit of an update: I ended up quarantining Sebastian yesterday as I noticed my other fish picking at her ripped tail, her fins are already looking alot better since removing her, so I'm currently treating with fluke solve in both quarantine and main tank. Sebastian's appetite is good, but she's still bottom sitting with clamped dorsal.

[gothicchick1100]

Sebastian is definitely more active now (in quarantine) however in the main tank I'm still having the same issue of sitting, inactive fish, I just can't understand whats wrong with them, my ranchu still has the white areas on his tail fin as well