Story of my life.. Dropsy!

[210 Oranda]

Well.. once again Im experiencing dropsy..

(So yes Taryl, Im a horrible fishkeeper, Lol..jk )

 

I have 2 mailed lionheads that arrived in March 30, in what it seemed to be good conditions

 

They're still in a 20G QT

 

One is (still) in perfect conditions but the other black/bronze one started to get red pimples and excessive slime on the wen a few days after arrival so I notified the seller and he recommended a few (10 second) peroxide dips.

First dip.. good

Second dip.. a little more time to recoup and some sideways

Third deep.. more time to recoup and lethargic

 

On April 12 I noticed some prickle to the scales but didn't think any of it since I was told that ranchus sometimes experience that without being sick

 

I sent today some pictures to the seller and he corroborates that it is an early stage of dropsy but cannot recommend anything specific since it could be caused by different internal problems.. pristine water along with antibac water treatment and/or medicated food is his suggestion

 

Im doing the questionnaire in a few minutes..

 

Thanks!

 

 

Here's what I've done so far

 

Mar 30: Arrival, covered tank

 

Mar 30 -1: De-stress days (just WC & double prime)

 

Apr 2: 75%WC + 76g salt (.1%)

 

Apr 3: add 76g salt (.2%)

 

Apr 4: 100%WC + 228g salt (.3%)

 

Apr 6: 75%WC + 170g salt (.3%)

 

Apr 8: 75%WC + 170g salt

 

Apr 10: 75%WC + 170g salt + 10sec peroxide dip (8:1 ratio)

 

Apr 12: 75%WC + 170g salt + 10sec peroxide dip

 

Apr 14: 75%WC + 170g salt

 

Apr 16: 10sec peroxide dip prior to WC

           100%WC + 76g salt (to reduce at .1%) + .2g prazi powder

 

Apr 8: 75%WC + 56g salt (.1%) + .2g prazi powder

 

Edited April 19, 2016 by 210 Oranda

[Speckles]

What a beautiful fish! I hope they get better soon[emoji4]

[Butterfly]

Wow. Gorgeous fish. Beyond gorgeous!  Wishing you and he/she my best.

[210 Oranda]

What a beautiful fish! I hope they get better soon[emoji4]

 

 

Wow. Gorgeous fish. Beyond gorgeous!  Wishing you and he/she my best.

Thank you ladies.. she's in fact a beauty..

[210 Oranda]

Test Results for the Following:

• * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0- 0.5
• * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
• * Nitrate level(Tank) 0
• * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
• * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
• * Nitrate level(Tap) 5
• * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.4
• * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4
• Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API
  • * Water temperature? Fluctuates from 72-75
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20G QT, 20days
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? sponge / pinguin150 floss only
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? 75% Every other day (degas overnight to obtain 8.4ph)
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, Apr19 - 75%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 - 4.5"
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? twice, NLS pellet, soilent green gel, bloodworms
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank? salt (0.3%) + prazi powder
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. See Above
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? pinecone scales and excessive white fuss on wen
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? lethargic
  • * Meds? kanaplex, metroplex, bifuran, triplesufla, reg. salt, epsom, prazipro, aquaprazi (powder), kana flakes (food), metro flakes (food), colloidal silver 500

     

Edited April 19, 2016 by 210 Oranda

[mjfromga]

Wow - sad. All this dropsy I'm pulling for you and her of course! She is a pretty little FLUFFMEISTER! I'm quite proud of you, I'm not sure I'd have not given up on the hobby after all of these unfortunate losses. Good on you for persevering. I'm beginning to think there's something really bad going on with your water, likely from the tap and likely invisible. All the losses, and all caused by dropsy is so sad. And all such pretty fish.

Taryl has been trying to experiment with internal Oxytetracycline for dropsy... Hopefully she can tell you more about this.

Edited April 19, 2016 by mjfromga

[Arctic Mama]

You have them on hand so I'd recommend feeding the metro flakes along with Epsom salt in the water, 1 tsp per five gallons. Please do a two week course of the metro food and make sure the dose is adequate. In the meantime see this thread:

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/123981-testers-needed-new-medicated-fish-food-options/

Order the Antibiotic II food and we will try that if the metro flake doesn't get on top of it, okay?

[210 Oranda]

You have them on hand so I'd recommend feeding the metro flakes along with Epsom salt in the water, 1 tsp per five gallons. Please do a two week course of the metro food and make sure the dose is adequate. In the meantime see this thread:

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/123981-testers-needed-new-medicated-fish-food-options/

Order the Antibiotic II food and we will try that if the metro flake doesn't get on top of it, okay?

Both flakes I have came from AngelsPlus.. However I have the Antibiotic I (gram-negative)

I'll order the Antibiotic II (gram positive) right away

 

Now.. if you recommend the NLS metro-pellet or anything else instead of the "Antiprotozoan" Metro flake I have, I can buy it tomorrow

 

I have 2 lionheads in the QT and don't have a way to manage a 3rd tank as right now

So.. Are we gonna be ok if we treat both fish with meds even if one "looks healthy".. ???

(I can move the healthy one tomorrow to main if needed)

Edited April 19, 2016 by 210 Oranda

[Arctic Mama]

Move the healthy one or move the sick one during feeding time so the healthy one doesn't eat those flakes. It's up to you.

[210 Oranda]

Move the healthy one or move the sick one during feeding time so the healthy one doesn't eat those flakes. It's up to you.

Mmmmmm

 

Questions..

 

Im in the middle of round 1 of praziquantel (w salt) but obviously dropsy is priority so..

 

I assume I gotta do 100%WC to remove prazi/salt and add epsom, right ??

 

But.. Even though the healthy fish won't be eating the metro food.. Is it ok to have it with Epsom for the next weeks ???

______________________________________________________________

 

The reason I asked about the NLS metro food is because is pellet and won't make a mess as the flakes do..

The remain flakes I have are all crumble down so it will be harder for the fish to eat them before the active ingredient dissolves into the water

and even if I move the healthy fish to a container while feeding the sick one.. there will be tiny flakes floating around when I bring the healthy one back so..

Edited April 19, 2016 by 210 Oranda

[koko]

Just some questions did these fish ever go into the main tank?

 

Are these fish come from the same seller as the others that got sick?

[210 Oranda]

Just some questions did these fish ever go into the main tank?

 

Are these fish come from the same seller as the others that got sick?

Nope.. they haven't been in main.. only 20 days in a separate QT by themselves

(they do use same water pump for water changes but the pump gets submerged in vinegar for hours and dried overnight before re-using) 

 

This ones are DO and the other ones came from CoastGem

for what I know at that time CoastGem didn't know how to ship or QT properly

Edited April 19, 2016 by 210 Oranda

[DawnMichele]

Hope they feel better.

[koko]

 

Just some questions did these fish ever go into the main tank?

 

Are these fish come from the same seller as the others that got sick?

Nope.. they haven't been in main.. only 20 days in a separate QT by themselves

(they do use same water pump for water changes but the pump gets submerged in vinegar for hours and dried overnight before re-using) 

 

This ones are DO and the other ones came from CoastGem

for what I know at that time CoastGem didn't know how to ship or QT properly

 

 

 

Do you know what your KH and GH is hun?

[210 Oranda]

 

 

Just some questions did these fish ever go into the main tank?

 

Are these fish come from the same seller as the others that got sick?

Nope.. they haven't been in main.. only 20 days in a separate QT by themselves

(they do use same water pump for water changes but the pump gets submerged in vinegar for hours and dried overnight before re-using) 

 

This ones are DO and the other ones came from CoastGem

for what I know at that time CoastGem didn't know how to ship or QT properly

 

 

 

Do you know what your KH and GH is hun?

 

Once Lisa (fantail1) told me the number but cannot find the thread

the chart that comes with the API kit doesn't tell you the PPM after 12 drops..

 

My KH is 13 drops

My GH is 18 drops

[210 Oranda]

I dont know if I want to cry or laugh..

 

The tancho lionhead that I bragged being in superb conditions has something sticking out above the vent area

 

Never seen it on/in a GF.. Do you know what it is ??

 

(I can start another thread if needed)

 

[210 Oranda]

I was told that it is a prolapsed ovaduct and they don't know any treatment for it..

 

Any suggestions ???

[jenzaar]

1. I love that tancho!!

2. Cat (chai) has a black comet that had that. I don't know if it went away on its own but try to check around if there was a thread on it.

Good luck!

[210 Oranda]

1. I love that tancho!!

2. Cat (chai) has a black comet that had that. I don't know if it went away on its own but try to check around if there was a thread on it.

Good luck!

Thanks for the 411

[210 Oranda]

Taryl,

 

I've received the flakes you requested, Antibiotic1 (Oxytetracycline Hydochloride)

How do you guys want me to proceed?

 

Fish have been on Antiprotozoan (metro) flakes + Epsom since Tuesday night

No changes in her looks/behavior (which I hope is good)

 

 

FYI.. I also have some Nitrofuracin green powder, just in case

[Arctic Mama]

I'll have to come on later tonight to assess things, I'm jammed here. Finish feeding the metro flakes for the full course for the time being, leave everything else unchanged until I get the current beat.

[Arctic Mama]

I was told that it is a prolapsed ovaduct and they don't know any treatment for it..

Any suggestions ???

I concur it's a prolapse and I wouldn't worry about it. Sometimes constipation can factor in but it is usually congenital or from spawning trauma.

[Arctic Mama]

I'm going to agree with myself from earlier - continue the antiprotozoan flakes. If the salt isn't up already please bump it up to .3% on the off chance there is an ectoparasite involved in the irritation. We probably don't need the nitrofuracin powder at this moment, not without more signs of external infections or compromised slime coat. No more peroxide dips either please. At this point I don't think Epsom is going to be much help unless the pineconing has worsened.

I may combine the oxy flake with paraguard later in the treatment if the fish worsens, do you have the latter on hand?

Edited April 23, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[210 Oranda]

I'm going to agree with myself from earlier - continue the antiprotozoan flakes. If the salt isn't up already please bump it up to .3% on the off chance there is an ectoparasite involved in the irritation. We probably don't need the nitrofuracin powder at this moment, not without more signs of external infections or compromised slime coat. No more peroxide dips either please. At this point I don't think Epsom is going to be much help unless the pineconing has worsened.

I may combine the oxy flake with paraguard later in the treatment if the fish worsens, do you have the latter on hand?

Yes.. paraguard on hand

 

I'll remove Epsom and add reg salt.. but.. Question..

Isn't regular salt bad when dealing with dropsy ?? (fluid retention)

[210 Oranda]

Just throwing this in..

red inside wen, pimple forming

 

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by 210 Oranda