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QandD

Lethargy and spastic swimming :(

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Test Results for the Following:
* Ammonia Level(Tank) .25 ppm
* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0 ppm
* Nitrate level(Tank) 5 ppm
* Ammonia Level(Tap) 0-.25 ppm
* Nitrite Level(Tap) 0 ppm
* Nitrate level(Tap) 0 ppm
* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.2
* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6
* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
* Water temperature? 72-3 F degrees
* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29 gallon, 7-8 months
* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 AC 70's with ceramic, floss, and coarse sponge
* How often do you change the water and how much? about 80% every 6 days
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 4 days 90%
* How many fish in the tank and their size? 2: Duchess the white fish who is 49 g (6 years old) and Vickie, orange oranda (about 1 year old), around 30 g
* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Seachem Safe, Excel, NilocG liquid fertilizers, baking soda, root tabs
* What do you feed your fish and how often? Duckweed lately; otherwise, Repashy Soilent Green and Super Green; soaked .5mm NLS Thera-A (twice daily)
* Any new fish added to the tank? No
* Any medications added to the tank? No
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
They were sick a year ago (salt-resistant parasites and columnaris, treated wtih Paraguard, Furan-2 and kanamycin); they had 2 maintenance Prazi rounds a couple of months ago; Duchess was having fin raggedness which cleared up with 10 days of .3% salt about a month ago.
* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No
* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Duchess stays in one spot in the tank (not bottom sitting), and when she does swim, she cannot control it. This has been going on for a over a month, although the lethargy is in the past 10 days. I thought it might be SBD or constipation (hence feeding duckweed and soft food), but she poops fine. She has been eating, although not very enthusiastically today. She swims very rapidly. Vickie is also more lethargic lately but has no trouble swimming. 

 

 

So, I cover most of it above. Duchess is very, very lethargic although she does not bottom sit. Vickie is also much slower than usual, which is very odd for her. Duchess's swimming is also pretty spastic despite having Prazi maintenance rounds, etc. (I also nuked the tank after last year's adventures in diseaseland, killing whatever salt-resistant parasite had been in there). She has no outward physical symptoms, but sometimes clamps her dorsal fin. Her gills are a healthy color and not ragged. 

 

My parameters are stable with nitrate never over 10 ppm. When there is trace ammonia in the tank I put in a capful of Prime or change the water. 

Here is a video of the behavior with narration. You can see the spastic swimming at 1:27 and 2:18. I mistakenly say that there are scars on Duchess's dorsal fin; I meant her tail fins.

 

 

I am wondering if they have an internal bacterial infection. I haven't ever gone the medicated food route, but am open to suggestions. They are not in QT yet since I don't know what's up with them, and a QT tank is a little difficult to manage, although I've done it in the past and can do it again. I'd like to get a jump on whatever is happening here.

Edited by QandD

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I agree with you--physically she looks great.  Her fins are relaxed, not clamped.  I probably wouldn't swim much if I had that long flowing tail either.   :teehee  Too much to drag around, lots of work, tiring . . .

 

The spastic swimming makes me think flukes.  I know you did a couple rounds a couple months ago but it might be worth repeating.  Did you prazi them in the main tank at that time?   :idont  What prazi do you use?

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She's super pretty. Always happy to see a video of her. Nericon has A LOT of finnage, but she's pretty active normally. She kinda looks fine except for the weird swimming and bumping her poor face into the bottom of the tank :(

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I agree with you--physically she looks great.  Her fins are relaxed, not clamped.  I probably wouldn't swim much if I had that long flowing tail either.   :teehee  Too much to drag around, lots of work, tiring . . .

 

The spastic swimming makes me think flukes.  I know you did a couple rounds a couple months ago but it might be worth repeating.  Did you prazi them in the main tank at that time?   :idont  What prazi do you use?

 

Yes, I Prazi'd the tank with PraziPro. I added Prazi powder last night and will try to do 4 rounds this time of the hard stuff. Duchess is having trouble swimming still although she is trying more to be active. They got Repashy Soilent Green (with added garlic) this morning and are very happy about it. I might cool it on the duckweed for a while, oddly, since it seems to make them pretty--or really--mellow. 

 

So should I just wait until I see external symptoms? She isn't the hardiest fish since Queenie died last year and she started up with her own health problems, so I don't want anything to get the jump on her. Do you think I should do a .1% salt solution with the Prazi to ward off any bacterial issues that may arise?

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It looks to me like Duchess tries to swim with her pectoral fins.  She works them very hard without any movement of her tail.  I thought perhaps she couldn't move her tail, then she lashed it very hard but appeared unable to control the violent movement.  The tail looks very heavy, but normally a fish with a too-heavy tail just sits on the bottom. 

 

I can think of one thing to do, namely give her a break by putting her in a shallow container with a large swimming area.  An underbed storage tote (~six inches tall) works well, but this box from IKEA may be even better.  It looks white in the picture, but actually has near-glass transparency. 

 

We can then hope that once she doesn't have to work so hard to carry the tail she may resume normal swimming.

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It looks to me like Duchess tries to swim with her pectoral fins.  She works them very hard without any movement of her tail.  I thought perhaps she couldn't move her tail, then she lashed it very hard but appeared unable to control the violent movement.  The tail looks very heavy, but normally a fish with a too-heavy tail just sits on the bottom. 

 

I can think of one thing to do, namely give her a break by putting her in a shallow container with a large swimming area.  An underbed storage tote (~six inches tall) works well, but this box from IKEA may be even better.  It looks white in the picture, but actually has near-glass transparency. 

 

We can then hope that once she doesn't have to work so hard to carry the tail she may resume normal swimming.

 

Thats what I was thinking to :)

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It looks to me like Duchess tries to swim with her pectoral fins.  She works them very hard without any movement of her tail.  I thought perhaps she couldn't move her tail, then she lashed it very hard but appeared unable to control the violent movement.  The tail looks very heavy, but normally a fish with a too-heavy tail just sits on the bottom. 

 

I can think of one thing to do, namely give her a break by putting her in a shallow container with a large swimming area.  An underbed storage tote (~six inches tall) works well, but this box from IKEA may be even better.  It looks white in the picture, but actually has near-glass transparency. 

 

We can then hope that once she doesn't have to work so hard to carry the tail she may resume normal swimming.

 

 

Thank you for this observation and everyone else's comments. 

 

Her tail has been very long for about two years now, but perhaps since having her illnesses it's a bit harder for her to manage. I've noticed that since discontinuing the duckweed feeding in favor of Repashy that she is much more active even though she has to "kick" hard periodically to get around. Since I think that the Petco dollar per gallon is going presently and I'd been thinking quite seriously about getting a 40B for them, I will pull the trigger in the next couple of weeks. If she is having more problems I'll put in her in a tote for resting sometimes. 

 

I'll let you know if anything gets worse. Thank you again!

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