Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
jmetzger72

Interesting Dropsy Article

Recommended Posts

 

So, I think we all agree that Triple Sulfa is probably ineffective for this condition?

Used with another medication it can work well synergistically, the same way Furan does. They're not enough on their own but I'm actually liking tetracycline or trisulfa with metronidazole more than I thought I would, and for some members they're easier to find locally.

Just my .02

 

Yes, I like to mix Metro/Kana/Furan for that reason.  I read that Minocycline (Maracyn 2) can be very harmful to the kidneys.  So, I'm not sure it is a better alternative to Kanaplex.  I need to research more sources.  I know Dnalex hated it  :idont

Edited by Jared

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't seen any issues but I haven't used it for an extended course, either. Each Maracyn formula has strengths and weaknesses, depending on what one is trying to treat. If you see something about organ damage and minocycline send it my way :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't seen any issues but I haven't used it for an extended course, either. Each Maracyn formula has strengths and weaknesses, depending on what one is trying to treat. If you see something about organ damage and minocycline send it my way :)

I think you are right that with Dropsy that sometimes we need to use what is readily obtainable to save valuable time.  Most of these effective antibiotics come with risks.  I think obtaining and keeping Oxytetracycline on hand might be a good strategy when possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ugh! I can't get this to paste correctly!

Edited by Jared

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Minocycline is also effective for fin/tail rot and OCCASIONALLY pop eye and is sometimes suggested for dropsy. However as for Dropsy I strongly recommend against this as this antibiotic can cause severe kidney damage, which is the last thing you want with a possible Dropsy case.
However Minocycline (Maracyn 2) is not generally a good first choice for fish with sores; Nitrofurazone, Sulfa Products, and Neomycin are better choices for sores/wounds.

 

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact sheets are interesting - I hadn't read the detailed one for minocycline yet. So it looks like the minocycline (Maracyn 2) would be a good first choice antibiotic for ulcers/lesions that haven't gotten to the point of needing multiple antibiotics to combat, instead of perhaps defaulting to things like Furan or Metro. For dropsy without external lesions defaulting to metronidazole and adding in a sulfa class if we need more bang, since the latter is inhibitory but not strong enough on its own.

I'm leaning more and more toward the sulfas essentially working as formula boosters than lone treatments anyway. I haven't had a case of dropsy in quite awhile (knock on wood) but I'll give it a go and test the metro and sulfa together, myself, and see what shakes out of it. That should give the gram positive and negative coverage we want without the possible worsening of kidney function.

Edited by Arctic Mama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've used the water borne sulfa/metro combo many times in the past with not so great results.  I think that is what Helen and I concluded above.  My experience when I was a moderator was that most of the success stories regarding dropsy involved Metro Meds.  This, plus the literature, seems to support two things:  1) Oral delivery is the best method of treatment for dropsy.  (Injection is even better, but not usually practical.  I think waterborne meds are fine for external infections and in the correct conditions.  The one exception is metronidazole, which seems to perform better when it is fed to the fish).  2) Oxytetracycline plus Metronidazole with or without a sulfa seems to pack the necessary punch to reverse the symptoms of dropsy.  

 

The main reason I have championed Kanaplex is because it is more skin-absorbed than the other water borne antibiotics,  So, if you are forced to treat dropsy with a water borne powder, Kanaplex has a better chance of getting to the internal infection.  This drug has been unfairly villainized for harming the kidneys. Well, folks, it's not the only one.  Many of the more effective antibiotics including Minocycline and Triple Sulfa can also harm the kidneys if "overused". That is the point "overused".  Sure, there is a risk when using Kanaplex for dropsy.  My point is that if you choose an antibiotic that isn't strong enough to reverse the infection at the onset , the fish will die anyway.  It doesn't matter that you spared the kidneys, because they are still going down with the ship.  

 

For those of you still in favor of Triple Sulfa, I would recommend that you try an oral combination of Sulfaplex and Metroplex.  This could be made into a food with Seachem Focus.  I don't recall us trying this before and it might be worth exploring.  Seachem is very good about offering support for this type of thing. even though they recommend Kanaplex for dropsy rather than Sulfas.  

 

In conclusion, my first choice for treating Dropsy, along with Epsom Salt, is an oral combination of Oxytetracycline and Metroniodazole.  When this is unobtainable, I would do the same with Kanaplex and Metronidazole.  If you must use a water borne powder, I recommend Kanaplex.  This is only my opinion, however, and only offered to help :)

Edited by Jared

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have been working with kanaplex over the last few months and not seen much good from it. I may be the only one left on the team that likes it for certain applications. I think we all agree that medicated food or injections are best for treating internal bacterial infections - maybe our focus should be somewhat on finding a new commercial source for medicated fish food that works reliably well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have been working with kanaplex over the last few months and not seen much good from it. I may be the only one left on the team that likes it for certain applications. I think we all agree that medicated food or injections are best for treating internal bacterial infections - maybe our focus should be somewhat on finding a new commercial source for medicated fish food that works reliably well?

I've had a lot of success with Kanaplex, particularly for Columnaris, etc.  If it hasn't been performing well for you as a water borne treatment for dropsy, it might be worth trying an oral Kanamycin instead.  However, I think we've have come to a concensus that quickly obtaining and using Oxytetracycline is the best plan.  When that's not possible, we have to resort to less desirable treatments.

 

I also think that people asking for guidance need to know that the prognosis for dropsy is not good and that the very drugs that may save the fish may also push it over the edge.  There's just no absolutely safe way to treat dropsy.  The moderators do their best, but they are not miracle workers.

Edited by Jared

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree completely. I'd say we have been having pretty good success on early bacterial infections but some just move too fast and some seem to recur or never fully let go. There isn't much for it except to try our best.

For infections with no dropsy present yet I've had great success with Kana combined with Metro, Triple Sulfa, or Maracyn 1 and 2. It's also become one of my favorites for combining with metro when there are parasites combined with secondary symptoms - it's like a one-two punch. But when it progresses to pineconing I'd like to improve our success ratio and am hoping some of the medicated foods hold the answer. It doesn't help our international boardies much, though :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it was worth mentioning here as well:

 

Helen wanted me to emphasize her support for oxytetracycline.  She says she has had success with both oral and water borne formulations (for when a fish is too sick to eat).  

 

Most of the literature I have read supports feeding as the preferred method of delivery.  So, if your fish will accept food, this is the best way.  Another reason for using a food rather than a water borne powder is that "calcium and magnesium bind to tetracycline and oxytetracycline rendering them inactive.  This means that with increasing water hardness (i.e., increases in calcium and magnesium levels), it is necessary to increase the dosage of these drugs in bath treatments".  So, I'm thinking it might be wise to stop the use of Epsom salt when adding oxytetracycline in powder form to the water  :idont

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...