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ChrissieA

Possible infection/dropsy

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Great thank you koko. I think I can get her to give me a bigger quantity, yes. Hopefully... Lol

The fist thing I found was this forum that talks about administering baytril in a variety of ways, although the actual site / OP question is for a different type of fish, and a different bacteria (I'm assuming)

http://www.rainbowfish.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2973&start=15

I think this is the article they reference during this discussion

http://kasetsartjournal.ku.ac.th/kuj_files/2008/A0804241046089825.pdf

And wouldn't you know it... I must have closed the other one I found :( I'll have to go back and find it so bear with me on that, but it was along the same lines as the above. I'll find it again ASAP.

Today was 100% WC and redose of baytril... The vet gave me enough to dose the qt for 3 days, however given Frank hasn't made a miraculous and complete recovery with the first 2 doses I figured I'm going to need to extend the treatment, so I've halved the water volume to stretch the meds longer. I've only done this because I'm home for the next few days, so I can monitor the water quality, but it stayed good today (I checked 4 times) I've only been very very lightly feeding once a day. I'm going to go back to the vet for more baytril in the next day or so.

Frank still seems completely fine, if not a little mopey and faded in qt. he is eating, pooping normally, foraging, Unclamped etc. I also think he might look better again today? What do you guys think? Here's a comparison

Day 1

image_zps7snvqszk.jpeg

Day 2

image_zpslyqitliq.jpeg

Day 3

image_zpsdbifas1a.jpeg

Also day 3

image_zpso0cqbdd0.jpeg

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WOW he is looking a tad better hun... I would go and ask for some more... It seems to be working :)

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I'm glad you think so, I must have checked him every 10 minutes today and kept going back and forward between 'a bit better' and 'all in my head' hehe.

I know it's still a long shot but if baytril could work, I'm wondering whether a higher dose would be more effective....

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Frank is looking better!

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He is definitely looking better! Hope the improvement continues!

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I'm happy you guys think so!

Today's photos. Day 4 of treatment

image_zpsvvel5mdm.jpeg

image_zpsdfeninwe.jpeg

I think maybe the scales are better again today? And maybe the swelling... Not sure there.

He's a fair bit more active in qt today. I guess he's settling in. Does anyone see a problem with me putting a small number of floating plants from the main tank in with him? He might feel more comfortable with a bit of cover and something to nibble on/play with.

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WOW. Looking alot better I say.

If you got some duckweed you can put some in there for him to nibble on. Great food for them :)

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Of course I don't hehe. I'm a totally unprepared fish mummy. I'll try and see what I can do over the weekend :)

Is there any harm in adding some of the floating plants in the mean time?

The photos always show up better on this forum than on photobucket or my phone etc. his scales really do look better... I thought so when I was looking at him in the qt but it's really hard to see him clearly in there because of the colour and lights. I'm very happy, I just hope he keeps improving, although I think I'll have him quarantined for a fair while

Thanks for the support koko :)

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He does look a lot better. Even the pineconing seems much better. :)

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Day 5. Another 100% WC and dose 5 of baytril

image_zps2h2hnhh3.jpeg

image_zps2kdhi8tv.jpeg

Somehow I only got crap pictures that make it hard to compare with previous days but I think he's looking better again today.

I think he might be constipated though as I havnt seen any poop in 24 hours. I've been feeding very lightly but I feel like there should be something at least.

I've decided to make an immune boosting gel food so I bought the ingredients I need today. I'm going to base the macro nutrient breakdown on the average of a few fav brands, and make sure it has lots of vitamin c, garlic etc. I'm not replacing their usual diet, just supplementing. I figure an immune boost can't hurt at this point

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Blanched, skinned peas are good for constipation.

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Yeah I gave him some of those for dinner earlier. Still nothing and he's usually pretty regular. I might fast him and try the peas again in a couple of days

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I'm looking for some duckweed. It grows wild here but it's a huge farming region and I'm just worried about pesticides etc so I'm looking to buy from someone who grows it themselves.

Frank is looking better again today but I won't know for sure until I get him in the bowl for the water change this afternoon.

Any thoughts on how long I should keep him on the antibiotics? As mentioned the vet said 3 days is a course, but she's admitted she doesn't know much about goldfish. I'd hate to pull him off too soon and have him rebound. Today will be day 6.

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He looks great!

He does! I was surprised this morning, it's much better than yesterday. I'm so happy :) we've still got a bit of a ways to go but he's responded so well :)

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:flex::happydance

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:happydance :happydance :happydance

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Looking much better :)

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For my own records and information for anyone interested, I've decided to keep Frank on the baytril for 14 days, assuming I can get one more round of it from the vet, if not, I'll only have enough for 11 days. My reasoning and what I've learned about water dosing baytril is this

1. Oral and injectable baytril is more effective. From information I've gathered from other websites/fish forums, research on koi and a dosage chart I believe is by the manufacturer of baytril (Bayer) you can dose it in the water, however the dosage is a lot higher than what I have Frank in and they tend to use baths, rather than constant immersion. That being said Frank has obviously really responded. Because he's responded so well I've chosen not to mess with the dosages/method. If he hadn't responded, I would absolutely increase the dose. This all makes me nervous that I may not be killing all of the infection but I won't know until I take him off the antibiotics.

2. Given the lower dosage I feel a longer treatment provides a better chance of nuking all the bacteria. I have not seen a single recommendation for a 3 day dose (recommended by the vet) but in all animals and fish, longer treatments were recommended and had minimal side effects. By all accounts baytril is a 'relatively safe' antibiotic and gentle on the kidneys

3. Absorption of baytril is reduced by mineral cations in the water. It's reported to work better in soft water, humans are advised not to take mineral supplements when on it etc. so I havnt been using Epsom salt during treatment.

So far Frank is doing great, which is awesome, but I won't consider him to be recovered until he's been antibiotic free for a few weeks without relapsing. I'll probably have him in qt for a while.

Very happy but also very cautious :)

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Tonight is day 14 and the final antibiotics dose for Frank. He looks pretty good but a couple of his scales are still a little lifted (they're the ones that were most severely affected in the beginning). Is it possible they'll just stay that way? Or are they likely to go down?

What's my next step? Should I put him in Epsom for a week or so? And if so, how much? I was thinking of doing the Epsom then a few weeks of clean water before returning him home.

I want to keep him in quarantine for a few weeks yet, I'm still nervous about him rebounding and it's sooooo much easier for me to properly observe him in the qt. he's really settled down and relaxed in there and it's been a good bonding experience. After 8 months I've finally managed to get him to hand feed :)

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