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wteoh1

Raised scales, possible dropsy

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Guys I'm very upset and concerned after today what i just seen with my white oranda. His scales are raised also he has been sitting down frequently since I moved here in North Carolina on December. However, he still is able to eat (he still eats very well).

 

Another note is that I forgot to let you guys know but I had to deal with the death with my other goldfish (fantail) he suddenly passed away around mid-Feb even though he was eating and was starting to swim weird and frequently sit.

 

The last time I did maintainence on my fluval fx6 was on early January and the foam filter blocks TURNED RED?!? 

 

I really need assitance guys, all of my fish were in perfect condition with no history of illnesses or symptoms and all this unusual things are happening to my new residence for my fish. Please help.

 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 7.6-7.8
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6-7.8
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.8
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Master Kit
      • * Water temperature? 78-80 curently (74 on most days)
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 60 Gallons has been running since May 2012. Moved from Illinois to North Carolina on December 25th, Goldfish stayed in a robber tote for a week after the aquarium was packed by movers on December 18-20? Did not have filtration until Aquarium arrived on January 10th and did 2-3x water change daily on temporary bin. Aeration was present all the time.
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Fluval FX6
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? Once every two weeks-once a month 90%.
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Feb 27
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? Two (One Bristlenose Pleco, One White Oranda)
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Saki-Hikari Extreme Color Enhancing Diet, Saki Hikari Color Enhancing Diet Floating, and Hikari Oranda Gold
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? None for the past three years.
  • * Any medications added to the tank? None
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. None, Oranda was introduced in March 2013 and had no history of health problems.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Raised Scales, looks bloated
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc Staying at the bottom, going for air from time to time (even though we have two bubble wands connected to a Whisper Air Pump 100 Gallons and his been doing that for a long time even before I moved).

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I also want to note that around mid-January my parents ordered a whole house filter and was installed in our household. It was an Aquasana 1,000,000 Whole house filter and included with a Salt-Free Softener, Pre and Post Sediment Filter, and UV filtration.

12633295_180391555656148_1113836096_o_zp

 

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He looks terrible!

I have a few recommendations - for immediate treatment pleas get him in a hospital tank with 1/2 tsp of Epsom salt per five gallons of water. What antibiotics do you have on hand?

For longer term help, we need to know your water hardness. The softener is probably doing much more harm than good and he may well benefit from some buffering agents and minerals added back in. Also, please change water in smaller increments. Consider 25-30% percent twice a week, no more than 50% weekly at a given time! More frequent and smaller water changes could really help reduce any osmotic stress and help him be more resistant to illness.

The red in your filter could be food buildup (some are very messy and heavy on things like krill and I notice you're feeding color enhancing formulas) or it could be iron. More extensive water testing could indicate that and your municipal water report can ballpark it for you.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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He looks terrible!

I have a few recommendations - for immediate treatment pleas get him in a hospital tank with 1/2 tsp of Epsom salt per five gallons of water. What antibiotics do you have on hand?

For longer term help, we need to know your water hardness. The softener is probably doing much more harm than good and he may well benefit from some buffering agents and minerals added back in. Also, please change water in smaller increments. Consider 25-30% percent twice a week, no more than 50% weekly at a given time! More frequent and smaller water changes could really help reduce any osmotic stress and help him be more resistant to illness.

The red in your filter could be food buildup (some are very messy and heavy on things like krill and I notice you're feeding color enhancing formulas) or it could be iron. More extensive water testing could indicate that and your municipal water report can ballpark it for you.

Jesus. I would have to go in my crawlspace first thing tomorrow morning and get him in the 20 gallon tote. I CURRENTLY do not have any medications due to the fact that I am against the use of chemical or "snake oil" in fish medicines but I will have to follow your advice if it takes to help save my goldfish. Also, I do have epsom salt thats only for the goldfish and I'll add what you directed me once I get that tote out tomorrow. 

 

I live in Durham, North Carolina. The reason why these whole house filter + softener combo was set in place was because of my eczema and my skin was bad to "untreated tap water". I live in an incorporated area with city water and looking at the Durham Water Quality report of 2014, HARDNESS is 21 mg but I currently dont have a hardness measurer that can drop due to the softener in place.

 

FYI: my goldfishes have lived with the softners throughout their entire life, my previous house was a salt-based softener. 

 

Would it be fine to add some baking soda to the tank to increase hardness? 

 

Does my oranda have dropsy? This is my worst nightmare if its true...

Edited by wteoh1

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Also would Maracyn or Kanamycin help?

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Yes, he has dropsy. If you don't want to use medications that is your voice but antibiotics are the best and first line of treatment for internal bacterial infections, which he has and most likely acquired due to stress. I believe the source of that stress could be the water quality.

Don't add baking soda until you've measured the hardness of your taps and tanks. The gH/kH test from API is available at your local big chain pet store and fairly inexpensive. That's the next step before we monkey with your water. And it may be that just lowering the volume of the change and upping the frequency is enough to solve the stress issue.

A tote probably isn't necessary when a five gallon bucket and daily water changes and prime would also do. Your choice.

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Also would Maracyn or Kanamycin help?

Which Maracyn? 1 or 2? Big no to kanaplex right now, I really don't like that for a dropsied fish because it can negatively impact their already compromised kidney function and it treats gram negative bacteria. Most of the anaerobes that can get out of control and cause a systemic infection are gram positive anyway :)

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Yes, he has dropsy. If you don't want to use medications that is your voice but antibiotics are the best and first line of treatment for internal bacterial infections, which he has and most likely acquired due to stress. I believe the source of that stress could be the water quality.

Don't add baking soda until you've measured the hardness of your taps and tanks. The gH/kH test from API is available at your local big chain pet store and fairly inexpensive. That's the next step before we monkey with your water. And it may be that just lowering the volume of the change and upping the frequency is enough to solve the stress issue.

A tote probably isn't necessary when a five gallon bucket and daily water changes and prime would also do. Your choice.

I'll be willing to use medications. I'll follow your instructions to help solve my fish's problem.

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Also would Maracyn or Kanamycin help?

Which Maracyn? 1 or 2? Big no to kanaplex right now, I really don't like that for a dropsied fish because it can negatively impact their already compromised kidney function and it treats gram negative bacteria. Most of the anaerobes that can get out of control and cause a systemic infection are gram positive anyway :)

 

I don't remember the difference between Maracyn 1 or 2 but I did had Maracyn Plus before. Which Maracyn should I use?

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I'd recommend Maracyn 2 for this, or Metronidazole.

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I'd recommend Maracyn 2 for this, or Metronidazole.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Great news, i found a 16 gallon sterlite (where I bought it for a hospital tank two months ago but never used). Going to rinse it like mad and make hospital tank going to fill it up halfway and put epsom as you suggested

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The Epsom should reduce the swelling. Get the antibiotic - either of them - as soon as possible. Time wasted means your pet's chance for recovery goes down. Feed lightly in QT and test the water each day. You may been to add prime on the days you don't do a water change if the ammonia is building up.

An air stone or empty filter should provide circulation. Water changes every two or three days to remove the meds and refresh the dose are necessary and we may need to modify the dose schedule to match that, depending on the medicine you use.

I'd recommend two packages of whichever antibiotic you select.

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Got him in with clean new water, poured in 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salt. Wish me luck while I get the MAracyn Two tomorrow....

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Should Petco or PetSmart have Maracyn Two in their stores? I'm hope that I don't run there for nothing in stock and wait for online order to come.

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Keep the lid off if you can for better has exchange. The bins like to bow out a bit but don't usually bust, though a strap clamp or bar clamp and some wood can help with pinching the sides back in. If your home runs on the cooler side a heater holding the temp around 76 degrees would be a nice choice, but if it's a big jump definitely raise it slowly. The goal is low low stress and impeccable water quality, whatever the treatment course.

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Keep the lid off if you can for better has exchange. The bins like to bow out a bit but don't usually bust, though a strap clamp or bar clamp and some wood can help with pinching the sides back in. If your home runs on the cooler side a heater holding the temp around 76 degrees would be a nice choice, but if it's a big jump definitely raise it slowly. The goal is low low stress and impeccable water quality, whatever the treatment course.

If don't happen to get Maracyn 2, would Maracyn or Maracyn Plus also work?

 

Also isn't two packets a little too much?  :yikes

Edited by wteoh1

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I'd prefer Maracyn 2, but Plus would work.

If you're dosing a larger body of water or we need to do a longer treatment you don't want to have to order again or run out to the pet store, and the boxes generally do the bare minimum treatment period for a ten gallon tank. So a larger tub or water or a longer treatment needs more.

Triple Sulfa would also suffice, but as I said Metronidazole is my first choice.

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This is secondary as treating the fish with meds comes first, but baking soda will not raise your GH, it will raise your KH . . . . 

 

Good luck.  :D

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I'd prefer Maracyn 2, but Plus would work.

If you're dosing a larger body of water or we need to do a longer treatment you don't want to have to order again or run out to the pet store, and the boxes generally do the bare minimum treatment period for a ten gallon tank. So a larger tub or water or a longer treatment needs more.

Triple Sulfa would also suffice, but as I said Metronidazole is my first choice.

Does this mean that I have to put more water in my 65 quart tub? 

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Day 2: 

 

It's been almost 12 hours since his been in the hospital tank treated with epsom salt. Strangely did not find any waste even though he ate normally last night.

Should some green peas be able to help him?

 

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No, you don't have to put more water in the tub. It's your choice.

You can feed de-shelled peas or blanched spinach, but I prefer duckweed or a commercial gel food like repashy to deal with constipation, and quite frankly I don't believe that is the primary issue here. More likely there is no waste because your fish hasn't eaten much in the last day or two. Can you confirm the last time you saw the first eat and not spit food out?

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Oh poor guy - he doesn't look too happy at all. I'm pulling for him! Hope he begins to feel better.

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No, you don't have to put more water in the tub. It's your choice.

You can feed de-shelled peas or blanched spinach, but I prefer duckweed or a commercial gel food like repashy to deal with constipation, and quite frankly I don't believe that is the primary issue here. More likely there is no waste because your fish hasn't eaten much in the last day or two. Can you confirm the last time you saw the first eat and not spit food out?

The last time he ate was last night before I saw dropsy. and he never spits it out as I always observe him when he eats and theres never any leftovers. I do occasionally feed him with green peas and i'll definitely feed him now. Does help alot with digestion and the bloatness if he happens to be constipated.

 

Unfortunately I did not find Maracyn 2 at any of my local pet stores so I went ahead and purchase a 20 packet Maracyn 2 on Amazon and will arrive exactly in 2 days. Had no option for next day. Going to purhcase the API GH/KH test kit as well. Just purchased it as well.

Edited by wteoh1

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UPDATE as of Day 2: Nothing much has changed.

 

However, I fed him frozen green peas today and he ate all of it. He was pooping today too so that a good sign.

 

When the Maracyn 2 arrives do I put two packets in it?

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UPDATE Day 3:  His has pooped alot and continues to eat?

 

I still have yet, to receive a response for my question about Maracyn 2 just to be safe since its coming in tomorrow and anymore suggestions 

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Hold your horses! As a volunteer I cannot be online all day and night, regardless of the time or time zone, answering fish related questions. I last checked this thread 18 hours ago and didn't see a need to give you a dosage schedule that very moment - please be patient.

With that out of the way, dose according to your water volume - so if there are twenty gallons of water you'd be doubling the package dosing.

My preferred schedule for this sort of issue is this:

Day 1: heat slowly raised to 76 degrees, 100% water change if the water isn't already fresh. Feed lightly. Two packets (or equivalent double dose) of Maracyn 2. Continue with Epsom salt at 1 teaspoon per ten gallons for the duration of the treatment, refreshing it every time you do your 100% water changes.

Day 2: dose another packet of Maracyn 2, treat water with prime if needed to control ammonia production.

Day 3: complete water change, replace Epsom, dose packet of Maracyn 2.

Day 4: dose packet of Maracyn 2, prime if necessary to maintain water quality.

Day 5: 100% water change, replace Epsom, dose packet of Maracyn 2.

Day 6: dose packet of Maracyn 2, prime water as needed.

Day 7: complete water change, no Epsom. Check back in here and let's see if we need to continue treatment.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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