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Pearlscale with Bubbles


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Hey guys, I just wanted to inquire for some help with my bubbly pearlscale, Jelly Belly Before I get into statistics, most of his behavior is fairly fine; He/she (I feel like it may be a he, because we've only seen Frankie lay eggs, but we could be wrong!) still swims actively, has their regular voracious appetite, and personality about them, and even still occasionally tries splashing me with water during feeding time. The only behavioral difference is that I think Jelly has been flashing some - which is understandable with all of those bubbles popping out towards his/her rear. I don't have anything that's very sharp in the tank, just the fluorite substrate and plants.

 

I tried looking up information on this online, and nothing seemed to offer any sort of answer to go into any direction. I saw where someone said that they manually popped the bubbles, and they never came back (ouch!!), to someone saying it was Dropsy, to someone saying it was a herpes/viral infection. Jelly Belly has managed to pop a few, and the ones that he/she has popped haven't come back, but there are still others popping up on his rear area.

Since I always hear to not use meds unless you know for sure what you're fighting, I haven't used any, and have simply tried staying vigilant on water changes, and observing for change (I don't want to give him/her some kind of medication that's going to make him/her feel like crap , have no appetite, etc, and possibly not work, when he/she is still active and eating, especially if he/she is fighting an infection, they'll need the energy from the food!)  I try to change 100 % every 2 weeks (so a 50% change every week), and my fiancé usually adds extra water when some has evaporated, because the tank is right next to our bed and he doesn't like the splashing sounds from the Fluval filter. I also try to alternate filter cleanings; the Fluval once every two weeks (or more often, if necessary), and alternate it every two weeks with the Marineland C-160 canister filter.

I am also worried that he/she may have Dropsy. I can't tell by his/ her stomach, because Everything seems to stick out there, but some of the scales up by their dorsal fin seem pine-coned out, and I can't but help but wonder if it's the scales doing this that's letting the bubbles pop out on their behind. :(So at this point, Jelly hasn't really improved (maybe the opposite because it seems like there are a few more bubbles that pop up every so often, but I could be imagining things since I haven't actually counted), but he still seems to have his usual spirit about him, so I'm in limbo with what to do, which is why I'm coming to you guys.

 

I also feel like it wouldn't accomplish much to separate Jelly Belly and Frankie at this point, because Frankie's probably already been exposed, so I would rather treat the both of them together, rather than go through the trouble of separating one from the other, only to reintroduce them and have the untreated one re-expose Jelly Belly back to whatever organism it could be that's causing this. I have honestly never seen anything like this on a fish before!

Frankie also seems her normal self. She really likes to hide in her anubias plant though - and idk if that is a sign of anything or if I'm simply being paranoid. She still is otherwise active too, and I haven't seen her flash at all. I did notice a single tear in her tail though, and the only thing that I can think of her ripping it on is that plant, as she has gotten herself fairly stuck in it before. She swims into it, naps, and if we come near, she tries to back up to come check us out, realizes that that's a bit difficult, tries to go forward through the plant, which is also difficult, and rinse and repeat until she finally makes it out. It usually takes her between 2-5 tries.

 

I have also increased the tank temperature to 73 degrees Fahrenheit, for a couple of reasons:  a) To get them to stop spawning ALL the time!  There for a while they were spawning the day of, or the day after I changed water (even our cool tap water was warmer than their room temperature water, evidently o.o).  At first I'd give the eggs a few days to see if they'd do anything, but  they'd end up fungused and sucked up by the filters and/or the water changer because I'd try changing the water again to clean that up, and then they'd mess it all up again >.<  I was keeping up okay, until our other tech. quit and I was picking up boo-koo (sp?) hours at work (60 a week?), because we had me and a night shift person covering both our individual shifts, our agency tech picking up night shifts so the other night tech could pick up day hours, plus adding days to cover for the absence of the tech that left. I hate to admit it, but I got a little lax on the water changes when that was going on and I'm afraid that might be what brought Jelly Belly's condition on, and now I feel terrible for him/her :( b). I have increased it because I've heard fancy goldfish do better in more tropical water, and that it helps sick fish out some.

Okay, now for what you've probably been waiting for!

Tank Water 3/5/16
Ammonia: 0ppm
NitrIte: 0ppm
NitrAte: 10-20ppm (not as light as 10, but not as dark as 20; I had held off cleaning the canister until 3/5/16 because on another occasion, my fiancé  cleaned the Fluval one time without telling me, and I cleaned the canister out later that day, or the next day. A couple days later I had a wonky ammonia reading. I think my Fluval bio bugs had crashed because he didn't realize not to use tap water, and I was trying to prevent a replay of that, because he did the same thing
pH:6.0
Amt. of water changed: 80-85%

Tap Water
Ammonia: 0
NitrIte: 0
NitrAte: 0
pH: 7.6

After Water Change (in tank)

Ammonia: 0
NitrIte: 0
NitrAte: 0 or up to, but no more than 5 ppm
pH: 7.6

 

Medications: API Pimafix and Melafix

Items: API tap water conditioner, and Quick Start

Food: Omega One Sinking Goldfish Pellets

           NLS Cichlid formula

           NLS Algae/ Gel

           Freeze Dried Blood worms

           Occasional peas/ veggies.

 

I will post pictures later in the morning, I need sleep! 

And Thank You for any suggestions!

Edited by LittleShadow
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Okay, but first the photos I promised, they are already on the computer - I'm not sure how to get pics/video off this new phone - my fiance did it, so I will have to finaggle with it some to get video,  :)  And sorry they're so big!

 

20160305_202718_zpsh4hrdpyf.jpg

 

One of the red spots is from a bubble he popped, the one furthest to his right, I'm not sure where it came from...

 

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag46/EmilyParkerCST/20160305_202740_zpsixulfj9r.jpg

 

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag46/EmilyParkerCST/20160305_203123_zpseaor2srl.jpg

 

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag46/EmilyParkerCST/20160305_203133_zps3sh7sywc.jpg

 

http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/EmilyParkerCST/media/20160305_203236_zps0emu55g8.jpg.html?o=4

I'm not sure if this is anything or not - she has a spot by her scale that's redder than most of her other scales - maybe it's just color?  It's about the same shade as her wen.

 

http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/EmilyParkerCST/media/20160305_202751_zpslvfzhlkw.jpg.html?o=14

Don't worry, it's not that giant red spot by her gills, that's just where her pectoral fins attach to her body XD  the red spot I'm talking about is slightly up and to the right.  

 

Thanks guys, I will have that video up ASAP

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So I took a video and have tried uploading it to photobucket twice, and keep getting an error code: HTTP Error.: 20160309_115543.mp4 

I tried looking it up on google, but didn't find anything there either =/  

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That is dropsy .. . .  :(   How long has she had the bubbles?

 

You will want to treat with metronidazole AND triple sulfa OR oxytetracycline.  Most big box stores carry triple sulfa but not metro.  The metro is a must.  If you don't have a good locally owned pet store around, you'll need to order it online.

 

Dropsy is a symptom of a disease, not a disease itself.  It hasn't necessarily spread to your other fish so I would only treat the one with blisters.  I can have a cold for 10 days and no one in the family catches it . . . .

 

What is your tank temperature normally?  If the infection is bacterial in nature, the warmer water helps the bacteria grow more quickly.   

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I have looked at all the places I had to go to today and the best any of them could do was melafix (granted, I don't know what areas are 'safe' so I only went to a few nearby places since I was alone.) >.<  And it's probably been close to a month that she/he's had the bubbles.  Can you tell it's a s/he??  I did find Epsom salt though!  One place only had the infused stuff so I went to walmart and bought a plain 5lb bag >.<  I'm going to see if I can't express order any of this off Amazon.

 

Should I go ahead and add the Epsom salt if I'm not doing anything else??  It's a ten gallon QT tank.  I also have an 18 gallon tote, but it's green, so I figured it would be safer to use the ten gallon tank.

 

Oh, and the tank water before I added the heater was in the 60's.  I forget the exact number, but it was chilly enough I didn't like dipping my arm in there to re-plant plants.  I'm a wimp when it comes to cold though.  

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Are these medications both foods?  I found metronidazole by seachem  that looks like it comes in a tube/ paste, and some oxytetracycline that came in a bag of flakes.  I know it's dumb to ask, but is this the right stuff?  Do I need to buy some garlic guard/ entice stuff for the metro?  I'm ordering it online, so if the place my fiance is going to check out tomorrow doesn't have any, I'll at least have some on the way :/  

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I'm not sure how to link from phone but it was called peabody's medicated flakes.It's in a silver bag with a see through side and was v basically v the very first option that came up. And the Epson salt is only magnesium sulfate. At Meijer I could only find the infused stuff, and I was going to get a smaller carton of salt at wally world but it had some sort of acid added to it, which is why I grabbed the 5 lb bag. I will add when i get home. At work now

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Here is the link to the oxy, my shipment just came in today! http://www.amazon.com/Peabodys-Medicated-Flakes-Oxytetracycline/dp/B00KQGM2FE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458009058&sr=8-1&keywords=oxytetracycline

 

I've mixed the metro up into my regular gel food and have it in the freezer currently.  

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That is dropsy .. . .   :(   How long has she had the bubbles?

 

You will want to treat with metronidazole AND triple sulfa OR oxytetracycline.  Most big box stores carry triple sulfa but not metro.  The metro is a must.  If you don't have a good locally owned pet store around, you'll need to order it online.

 

Dropsy is a symptom of a disease, not a disease itself.  It hasn't necessarily spread to your other fish so I would only treat the one with blisters.  I can have a cold for 10 days and no one in the family catches it . . . .

 

What is your tank temperature normally?  If the infection is bacterial in nature, the warmer water helps the bacteria grow more quickly.   

 

all 3 work well together, i recommend their combined use in dropsy situations.. 

 

to the OP, please understand this. very rarely does a pearlscale recover from dropsy. when the pearlscale shows fluid sacs like this, the infection is pretty well advanced.. it is ok to try a few rounds of treatment, but if in the first 7 days you do not see any improvement, please consider that it's very likely that the fish will not recover. at that point, it will be upto you to keep trying or to entertain euthing the goldfish.

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Thank you for the heads up.  In the directions of the peabody's medicated flakes, it says to take for 10 days exclusively, the metro meds says to use for 3 weeks.  I figured I'll see how Jell-Bell is doing after that (unless s/he gets too bad before then) and decide from there.  I am a little confused on the metro meds though - it says to use a tablespoon of frozen food paste with a measure of meds, which I did (actually 2, considering I'm coming into this late, and the box said it was okay to do).  But it doesn't say how much to feed for each feeding.  I already gave Jelly some, and s/he happily gobbled it down, all 5 big globs that I got off of my finger, and then started losing interested.  Is that how I'm supposed to feed, or should I be putting the whole tablespoon in and getting rid of what's not eaten afterwards?  There's no indication to which on the box or the package - it just says to mix it with a tablespoon and give every 2 days for up to 3 weeks.  

 

I am also ordering the triple sulfa.  I finally found some!  I was also looking for a powder version of the oxy, but couldn't find any on Amazon.  It was either a different med, or the right med but unavailable.  I really hope this works.  It's the strangest thing - in spite of being dropsied - Jell Bell is still active, doesn't Normally flash, has no clamped fins, and has an appetite, and keeps his/her balance pretty well.  Occasionally when s/he's eating, s/he'll flip, and then go right-side up right after, but that's the only time it happens, and that was going on before this mess.  

 

I also keep catching the poor thing looking at the main tank from the corner of the QT Y_Y  </3 

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Oh, and I also don't have a heater in this tank.  I kept it at around the same temperature as the main tank when I added the water, added Jelly (who was in a bag of h/is/er water, and I added the new water to), and just let it naturally go to room temperature from there.  

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http://vid1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag46/EmilyParkerCST/20160321_195620_zpsjpv1lis5.mp4

 

I hope this links to the right link, it's supposed to be a short video of Jelly Belly in their QT tank.  S/he is doing the feed me dance :)  

I've noticed that since I've had them in this tank and have been dosing everything, (I'm almost done with my first round of Triple sulfa, feed the peabody's flakes daily, and every other day do an extra feeding of metro), that some of the bubbles have actually gotten Larger! One of them has a thick red line coming out of it!  You can't really see it in the video, but it's there, where one of the really large bubbles used to be.  I don't know if it's just a piece of scale/ flesh, or if it's a worm that's trying to come out (yuck!).  It's still really ironic that Jelly's swimming so well in spite of their condition though.  I guess that's a good thing?  What do you guys think?  

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Yes there is 1 tsp of Epsom salt in the aquarium, and she is pooping as we speak.  It's definitely brown and solid - no bubbles or clear stringiness.  I guess it could be coming out longer though - it comes out in kind of short chunks - maybe a few centimeters at a time or so?  :idont  

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Ok, so I just wanted to let you guys know, Jelly is still eating anything I put into the tank with gusto.  I also haven't witnessed any more flipping since s/he has been in the QT tank.  However, s/he still looks swollen and has bubbles on her bottom that are larger than when s/he was in original tank.  Seems to poop fine, I'm finding it on bottom of the tank fairly decently.  

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Do you think there has been any improvement in the bloating/roundness or the bubbles?  I know it's hard to tell about the bloating with a pearlscale since they are so round to begin with . . . 

 

With that combination of meds, we have covered our bases pretty well.  If that doesn't take care of it, I'm not sure where to go.  Let's give it a few more days and if she's still looking the same I'll discuss this more with the mod team.  I'm glad she's acting normally.  :D

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Me too!! I just fed her her last pinch of oxy for the night, and she had her whole face out of the water trying to get it!  And I keep trying to tell if she's not as pineconed, but one second it won't seem like she is, and the next time she swims in another direction it seems like it is.  >.<  It might not be quite as bad, but like you said, it's hard to tell what's her roundness, and what's extra... There's still quite a few bubbles for now though, and some are big enough that they jiggle... o_o  

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