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ChrissieA

Help! :(

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Frank just got stuck in the filter intake! I'm such an idiot :( I know healthy fish aren't supposed to get stuck but he's been fine!

What do I do?

Hello again.

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrate level(Tank) 0 before 80% WC 2 days ago. Is always low, maybe 1 or 2 at most.

* Ammonia Level(Tap) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tap) 0

* Nitrate level(Tap)0

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Colombo drops

* Water temperature? 20-22

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 140L, 5-6 months

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aquapro super fish 800l/hr

* How often do you change the water and how much?, twice weekly between 50 and 80%

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Two days ago, 80%

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 3, 5cm, 7cmand 9cm without tails

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Aquasafe

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Once daily, fcp godly sinking granules (I think they're crap but the best I could find at the time, will order better ones with the water conditioner)

* Any new fish added to the tank?2.5 months ago I added the two bigger fish

* Any medications added to the tank? I added a dose of prazi 2 days ago because I noticed 2 fish flashing on Friday

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Prazi/levamisole mix for 3 weeks I think, finishing up at start of December. Followed instructions and Sharon's advice.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Just some wounds and skin hanging off

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Clamping, he momentarily bottom sat but is generally moving around although oddly because he's clamped

I'm waiting for my bf to get home, his phone has a much better camera than mine...

But what do I do?? I don't have a qt tank... The best I can do is a 15L tank

Please help!

Edited by ChrissieA

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Hey Chrissie. So sorry to hear Frank got stuck. Someone will be along to help you. Hope he feels better.

Edited by DawnMichele

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I'm sorry to hear about your fish.

 

Pictures would be most helpful.

 

Can you get some sort of QT container? Ideally 38 liters (10 gallon US). Even a plastic container (like a storage bin) with an airstone would be good. The reason is because the other fish may start to pick on the fish that has been injured.

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An hour later and Frank (the shubunkin) seems to be acting fairly normal... Not clamped and swimming around, foraging etc. maybe he was in shock? he also actively ate dinner. He has a big flap of skin hanging off the top of his head. You can see it in the video, but not much else... From his behaviour he seems ok? There's some blood and redness around his eye right eye but you can't see it in the video.

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w424/ChrissieA1/Mobile%20Uploads/th_WP_20160202_20_07_09_Pro_zpsfrypetua.mp4

Does he seem ok? How do I stop him getting infected?

I can't get anything tonight, it's 9pm, I live in the middle of nowhere and everything even close is shut :(

Frank is my favourite fish so I panicked. Thank god I was close to unplug the filter...

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If you can't QT him tonight, there isn't anything else I'd suggest.  Let's see how he's doing in the morning.  If he was my fish, I'd QT him and salt to 0.1% . . . 

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Hope he feels better. IMO, he was swimming a tad oddly, but then I'm used to seeing Fancies swim so maybe thats normal for Shubunkins. Don't have any medical advice, hope he gets better. I've been told that clean water will usually heal wounds pretty quickly by itself. That's been that case with my fish when they had minor injuries. :) Good luck!

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Frank seems fine today. He's not clamped and actively swimming around... I think I'm more stressed out about it than he is!

The flap of skin on his head seems to be settling down, although it's still noticeably lifted.

I'm going to see if I can find something to use as a qt before the shops shut. Should I still qt him with 1% salt? He genuinely seems like his normal self, I'm just worried about secondary infection...

Thank you for the advice and well wishes :)

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0.1% salt (not 1%). I would qt. The salt will help to reduce osmotic pressure as the wounds are healing.

Edited by LisaCGold

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Ok great, I found a food safe tub so ill qt him with 0.1% salt as suggested. Any Idea how long I should keep him in there? I guess until he heals up?

Thanks for helping :)

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I suggest at least 5-7 days. Make sure the water parameters are pristine. This may require almost daily water changes.

 

Let us know how it goes!

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No problem, I'd planned on daily WC's. So far so good in qt although he clearly doesn't like it in there. I've kept the lights low and he's more calm. Thank you again!

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I wouldn't worry about the skin flap on the head because that will heal on it's own with great water quality. Personally I would put that fish back in the tank and do nothing but keep the water good.

A makeshift QT is not what this fish needs IMO. 

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He's been in qt close to 24 hours and I think he hates it. Is this normal? He's not bottom sitting or clamped but very inactive and flighty when I approach, which is very different to his normal behaviour and the way he was acting in the tank before I put him in the qt.

What do I do? I just want him to be ok. I've never qtd before, is it normal for them to behave differently?

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Yes, it is normal. Did you match water temp and ph?

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He sounds lonesome and afraid of you because you took him away from his tank and "family." Here's a trick koi people use to treat a wound or ulcer and put the fish right back in the pond.

 

You need iodine, denture powder, something to swab with, and probably a helper.  You take the fish out, swab the wound with iodine, and then sprinkle denture powder on the clean wound until the powder stops sticking to the wound.   Tamp it down gently with your finger tip and put the fish back in his home tank.

 

In an aquarium situation, where one can do very large, frequent water changes I would probably do just as Rob said.  However, I always remove a wounded pond fish to a container that allows me to do daily 100% water changes.  Having found the denture powder trick, I can let them go back home faster.

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Ok, so, I was a little confused as there seems to be equal and opposing opinions on what to do with poor Frank - keep him in qt or move him back to the tank - and clearly i have no idea on my own, I've never dealt with injured fish.

This morning After weighing up both view points I was going to meet in the middle and qt him another day or so, until the wounds more or less seal up, then return him home for the remainder of his recovery, where I really think he'll be happier. I've had him 5 months and he's never behaved this way, even after his accident. Given he's not showing symptoms of being unwell and only developed this behaviour in quarantine I can only assume he is lonely and angry at me as Sharon said.

When I came home from work today he has noticeably faded in colour. Mainly the black colour on his fins. Do you think this is a sign of illness or stress? Will his colouring return?

I'm going to do an 80+% WC on the tank to make it as clean as I can and add him back in. I think it'll be better for him. If he is sick I guess I'll just deal with that then. Is it common for stressed fish to lose their colour?

I really hope he's ok... And I appreciate the different view points, suggestions and efforts to help Frank :)

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Frank is back in the tank and immediately went back to his old self! After floating for 2 days and swimming away from me, he's actively playing with his friends and following me as I move around the room! I'm so relieved. His colour also came back almost immediately? I saw him in the same light for 2 days, and today he was absolutely losing his black... I looked in different lights and he looked the same - white. But after returning to the tank his black is back, although you can see areas that havnt quite returned?!? I have no idea what's going on there... I took photos but photobucket is down for maintenance. I'll post them over the weekend. Can colour change be that quick or am I mad? Lol.

Either way, he seems well, which is all I care about. We couldn't have known he'd hate quarentine so much. If he was showing serious illness I'd have left him in anyway, who knows, he still could... But given he seems fine, the stress seemed pointless.

Thank you :)

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In QT a fish can mope a bit. Good to see that you made your own choice given the varying opinions. Yeah, this was not a serious illness so QT is not as important.

 

Yes, color can fade a bit when a fish is stressed, less active, and/or other reasons.

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One more thing, if infection were to set in, how long would it take? I'm just wondering how long I have to worry about him :). Does an infection set in quite soon after an injury and if so, do they show symptoms of being unwell quite quickly?

Or does infection and/or symptoms take a while to develop?

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One more thing, if infection were to set in, how long would it take? I'm just wondering how long I have to worry about him :). Does an infection set in quite soon after an injury and if so, do they show symptoms of being unwell quite quickly?

Or does infection and/or symptoms take a while to develop?

It depends.....I know that is not the answer you were looking for, but that is the best I can give. Hopefully, and more likely probably, you won't have to worry about that.

 

You had a unique situation where your fish became injured in its own environment that it has lived in for some time. That is the main reason I would never suggest using a slapped together QT tank as that can do more harm than good and I think you noticed that. Normally when you see trauma in the head area it tends to do well with just clean water if it's minor. 

 

IMO a QT tank should only be used to add new fish to an existing population or in the cases of severe trauma. 

Edited by jetman73

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I've been reading about infections in fish since my Slate developed a very large lump on his head of absolutely unknown origin and it MAY have been an infection. From what I gathered, infection often sets in pretty fast and takes a fish down even faster. You will have to keep a close eye on the fish to ensure that any infection is caught quickly. If an injured fish is being bullied by others, it also may be a good idea to use a QT tank. But superficial wounds? My fish have had them, ands they've always healed on their own with normal water maintenance. No medication or QT tanks were needed.

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