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labecs

Laying on the bottom, cannot swim up at all...

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  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) 15
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) PH 6.8 / GH 75 / KH 0 ch 0
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) PH 6.8 / GH 75 / KH 0 ch 0

     

  • Other Required Info:
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? both - Master Test Kit and Tetra strips
    • * Water temperature? 72
    • * Tank size (how many gals.)  and how long has it been running? 45 - 2.5 years
    • What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 

      Eheim 2217 (264 gph) and an Aqueon pf (250 gph)

      * How often do you change the water and how much? 50% + every week

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  - 2 days ago 50%

    * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 - 5 inches nose to tail

  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Every other day: Hikary lionhead pellets
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? No

 

HOSPITAL TANK:

  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) 0
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) PH 6.8 / GH 150 / KH 40 ch 0
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) PH 6.8 / GH 75 / KH 0 ch 0

     

  • Other Required Info:
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? both - Master Test Kit and Tetra strips
    • * Water temperature? 75
    • * Tank size (how many gals.)  and how long has it been running? 10 - 3 weeks
    • What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Small power head

      * How often do you change the water and how much? 50% + every other day, except the first week

      • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?  - today  50%

        * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 - 5 inches nose to tail

      • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
      • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Every other day: Hikary lionhead pellets / shelled peas once a week
      • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
      • * Any medications added to the tank?  Maracyn Two Sulfa Plex
      • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
      • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
      • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

       

 

Ok, this is the story.

 

I've had this tank for 2.5 years. My original 3 goldies lasted a few months, after I moved them from California to Washington. After that, I tried to replace them, I always like to have 3 at a time, but I am obviously doing something wrong because I keep losing them. The one that is in the tank now has lasted the longest, about a year. The one that died (see below), lasted about 6 months, Mike, and the one that is sick now, Valentino, has only been here a couple of months.

 

Mike started showing symptoms of dropsy, curved body and floating at the top. Valentino started sitting at the bottom, showing effort to swim up. I first treated them for constipation 3 days fast and then peas. Repeated two times. Took them out of the tank and put them in a 10 gallon hospital (which is not cycled yet, but I have been adding Cycle, and put the sponge from the big tank filter).

 

Medicated with Maracyn Two.  Two rounds. 5 days each. Kept the fast for a few days, then peas. Not a lot of poopage going on. The one with the severe curved body died.  

I tried giving Valentino the Cod Liver oil. Still not pooping after a couple of days. Then I gave him some pellets. very little pooping still.  Started with Sulfa Plex, 5 days. No improvement. He is alert, and eats well. I gave him pea today again, I just have to hand feed him, otherwise he cannot get to his food. Struggles to swim at all, just sinks to the bottom.

He's pooping very little, sometimes brownish stuff. Never pooped green even after feeding him peas.

A few times, poop is white and stringy. Started him on Hex-Shield for parasites today, but I had already fed him in the morning. He pooped a little white stuff.

 

I am hoping the parasite food will help. I don't know if he can be helped. I'm so lost...

 

The one that remains in the big tank, Moritz, is apparently strong and healthy. The aquarium store people recommended I feed him the parasite food as well for 3 days.

 

---- sorry for sounding confusing... it's been crazy...and I might have gotten some stuff wrong.

 

I used to be good at keeping my goldfish, but since I moved to Washington my head has been all over the place and even forgot about this forum, which was my lifeline for the longest time!  I wish I would have remembered sooner, so I could have done the right treatment from the beginning instead of this mess I've made.

 

I hope Valentino has a chance... I hope you can help me get back on track with my goldies, please. I've lost too many.

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:hi sorry your fish aren't doing well :hug

Would we be able to get some pictures of the affected fish and a picture of your tank? I'm wondering if there may be something in there causing an issue of some sort that may be being overlooked by accident.

Your pH is quite low. At least it is stable which is good though. Would it be possible to get your kH (alkalinity) tested for us from your tap water and tank please? I am going to recommended buffing your water with baking soda (brand new (or one that has not been opened) and no addatives) to get that pH up to 7.6 or so.

Is the poop zigzag like it or is it just white/clear and long?

I would also recommended in the main tank doing an 80 percent water change to lower those nitrates if they are still at that level after a 50% water change two days ago. Do NOT add any baking soda yet as the pH is stable and I just want to get those nitrates a bit lower for now.

Edited by Mikey

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Just read your thread on crushed coral, didn't realize you already were given advice on pH :). So follow that advice but I would recommend the 80% over the 50% still. So more baking soda would just have to be added back in after each water change.

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Did you test your pH with the high range pH test and well as the regular?

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Hope your Goldfish are feeling better.

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I just tested the large tank with the master kit (not the strips)

 

Nitrates 20 +   (tap 0)

Nitrites 0      (tap 0)

Ammonia 0+     (tap 0)

High PH 7.4     (tap same)

Low PH 6.8/7     (tap same)

 

Hospital tank

Nitrates 10 +   (tap 0)

Nitrites 0      (tap 0)

Ammonia 25+     (tap 0)

High PH 7.4     (tap same)

Low PH 6.8/7     (tap same)

 

I'm gonna do a water change on both right now.

 

You can see the video of both tanks here:

 

The white stuff at the end in the hospital tank is last nights poop, I fed him the parasite food about half hour ago and he still hasn't pooped at all today.The non-bubbling airstones (2) are the emergency ones. I just put the large sponge filter in the hospital tank.

 

Upon checking the PH with the master, it does not seem so off, they checked it with a strip yesterday, and it appeared lower even. I'm thinking of maybe adding a small bag of crushed coral instead of the sponge in the power filter, leave the canister as is, and with this water change I am going to add another sponge filter to the big tank.

 

You see anything that could be wrong?

Edited by labecs

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Can you make the video public?

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Can you make the video public?

Sorry. Done

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So you have a pH of 6.8 to 7.0 for both tank and tap.  I don't see any reason to fool with that. 

 

I like putting the crushed coral in the power filter. 

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So, water chemistry issue decided. No need to buffer the PH, just keep an eye on it. Chances are that's not what's hurting the fish.  I am thinking definitely it's a food issue. I used to alternate between, blood worms, brine shrimp, peas, flakes and lionhead Hikary...which I sometimes kept for too long, and I would feed them every other day.   I am going to start rotating Soilent Green gel, Spirulina Brine Shrimp (frozen), Sera GVG mix... maybe a 2 day fast and a pea every month?  Should I keep doing it every other day? Is it a good idea to treat them with the Hex Shield for parasites every so often?  How often do you give Prazi treatments (for maintenance)?  I need to clean up my act.

Edited by labecs

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Oh, I have to add they also suggested I give them duckweed.  I cannot find it mentioned in the forums. Does anyone use it? If so, how? Do you just let it grow in the tank, or just feed little bits?

 

Another update... an hour after the 80% water change on the big tank, Nitrates are between 5 and 10.

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Duckweed is an excellent live food for goldfish.  You have to grow it in a separate container and feed it used fish water. 

 

Why are you feeding every other day?  Goldfish in nature nibble virtually every waking hour.  The available food lacks the concentrated nutrition of commercial fish food, so they have to eat all the time to stay healthy.  They have retained the instinct to eat all the time, which leads to us overfeeding them.  Ideally, we would give our fish a tiny bit of food every hour, but a lot of people settle for two small meals a day, one of a staple food, and the other of a variety food.

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Duckweed is an excellent live food for goldfish.  You have to grow it in a separate container and feed it used fish water. 

 

Why are you feeding every other day?  Goldfish in nature nibble virtually every waking hour.  The available food lacks the concentrated nutrition of commercial fish food, so they have to eat all the time to stay healthy.  They have retained the instinct to eat all the time, which leads to us overfeeding them.  Ideally, we would give our fish a tiny bit of food every hour, but a lot of people settle for two small meals a day, one of a staple food, and the other of a variety food.

What do you mean "used fish water"? 

 

Also, from what I mentioned, what food would you use as a staple?

 

The feeding every other day was yet another advice from someone. They said the less you feed them the better  :(    So, there's my answer. I killed them...

I'll start feeding daily again, just want advice on what should the staple be from all the foods I listed.

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I think Shakaho means that you should use water from the tank as your water for the duckweed :)

When you're doing a water change on the tank add that old water to your duckweed, not fresh stuff from the tap which doesn't have the biological/waste products that feed the duckweed.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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I think Shakaho means that you should use water from the tank as your water for the duckweed :)

When you're doing a water change on the tank add that old water to your duckweed, not fresh stuff from the tap which doesn't have the biological/waste products that feed the duckweed.

Got ya!

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Soilent green makes a great staple.

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I don't think you killed them by feeding every other day unless you were feeding extremely lightly.  :idont

 

Can you take a video of you lifting your fish to the surface of the tank, then releasing him so we can see how he reacts?

 

Your fish are beautiful BTW.  :D

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I don't think you killed them by feeding every other day unless you were feeding extremely lightly.   :idont

 

Can you take a video of you lifting your fish to the surface of the tank, then releasing him so we can see how he reacts?

 

Your fish are beautiful BTW.   :D

 

 

It's so painful to watch... I really want to save him...you think there's a chance?

 

(am I doing it right, uploading to YouTube? Or is there another way? )

Edited by labecs

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Wow, that is really sad and mysterious. Color and fins are good. Have we checked the gill color? That almost seems like some sort of poisoning to me, with the lethargy and no other symptoms.

I'm sorry he is suffering so. But don't give up just yet!

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And he eats well, he really looks fine, and really tries to get up and swim, poor thing.  It's his first full day with the parasite food... I already tried everything for constipation, and he still poops very little. I fasted him, gave him cod liver oil, a grain of Epsom, peas...

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Your fish are beautiful! You are in good hands with the mod team here.

 

BTW, how do you give a goldfish cod liver oil?

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 That almost seems like some sort of poisoning to me, with the lethargy and no other symptoms.

 

I don't even think he's lethargic, he seems to want to move and swim, it's just that he just drops down like a rock and it's like he's too heavy to lift himself.

Come to think of it, ever since I got him, he has favored staying close to the bottom, but he did use to swim around the tank a lot. I wonder if he had a bladder problem even before I got him...? 

 

I noticed some very stringy white poop a little while ago, almost transparent.

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Oh, that's so heartbreaking. I'm very sorry you're having this issue. He looks so healthy otherwise. I'm not competent enough to advise, but I hope he recovers. I will say that I doubt the food you were giving caused this issue. I've never heard of the food ITSELF causing an extremely listless fish that can barely move a muscle. He almost looks paralyzed, as he could move his fins, but not his body. Poor little guy. Sending healing vibes in hopes you and the mods can figure this out in time.

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What color are his gills? Light pink? Cherry red? More of a maroon or blood color? Fluttering down to the bottom while barely swimming or moving is not generally associated with constipation.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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You can read this.  I have never heard of another cure of a total loss of buoyancy and I don't know why this happened.  However it did include three of the things that can help treat or prevent swim bladder disorder  -- shallow water, duckweed, and exercise -- perhaps a fourth in underfeeding.  I do think his determination to eat that duckweed played a major role.

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