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NewBlackMoor

Sick black moor - time to euthanise?

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  • Hi. One of my black moors is in a sad state, he was bottom sitting and he's now bent over and struggling to swim. I'm wondering if he can be saved or if I should put him out of his misery, he looks so unhappy. Full details below. Thanks for any help.
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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0-0.25 ppm. Always below 0.25, never quite 0 before water change.
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 0-5 ppm. Seems to be falling.
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) As above
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) Unknown
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) Unknown
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Around 7.8
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Around 7.4 (I think)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drop testing kit
      • * Water temperature? room temp, don't know actual number
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 135L (36 US gallons). Running one month (short notice to rehome relative's fish, no time to cycle)
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Ocellaris 850 External Filter
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? Daily, usually 15-25%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday, 15%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 black moors. One about 2 inches (healthy), one about 1.5 inches (sick)
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Seachem prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Tetra fancy goldfish pellets. 1 each twice a day, as per relative. Lately have fasted and used peas in case sickness was constipation.
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No, both been in same tank for several years. Moved tank together one month ago. Previous tank 40L. Used some gravel from old tank and tetra safe start in bid to minimise pain from cycling.
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Melafix, last 3 days
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. As above, not aware of anything else by relative previously
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Ill fish had one white spot near gills that looked fluffy, I think it's gone now.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
  • From day 1 in our tank, the smaller fish seemed to like sitting on the bottom of the tank under the filter. This has got progressively worse. End last week, larger fish seemed very aggressive at feeding one evening, next day smaller fish's fins had slight damage and white marking at tips. Have been feeding larger fish more since, seems to have made him less aggressive (or maybe that's coincidence). In last few days, ill fish has become bent over almost at right angles at his tail and now is showing little interest in food. He only seems to move when the larger fish comes near him.  I was going to give it to the weekend to see if the melafix works, but now I'm wondering if he's too sick and I should just put him out of his misery while I'm working from home tomorrow. Will read up on how to do this humanely if it's what I decide on, don't worry. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

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Can you let us know what, if anything, you treated him with for quarantine? A video would also be extremely helpful. Just upload to YouTube and post a link here :)

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IMG_20160124_174424620_zpsmmfcaqqh.jpg

 

Can't do a video, but bad photo shown above, hopefully.

 

Nothing for quarantine, was such short notice.

 

He's still alive this morning. Last night he seemed to be going quite a while between breaths, but he's breathing more regularly this morning. Do you think is that a good sign?

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Bent in that C shape is not a good sign unfortunately :(:no:

1 pellet twice a day? That's way too little for a young growing fish, or really any fish in general. Fasting him won't help and neither will feeding peas. I don't see how he is constipated :idont

You say little fish have issues in your tank. I'm wondering if you are testing your water correctly? With poor water quality, new fish will be very sensitive to it while the older bigger fish not so much because they grew up in it. Or it may be the fish are weak and sick when purchased. Are all of the little fish that you say go under the filter intake purchased from the same store? If so, I wold recommend try buying from a different source.

How are you testing your nitrates? That seems to be the most troubling one to test. What does I think mean when you say 7.4 for tap. Is that used with high or normal range pH test?

Edited by Mikey

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Mikey - there's just the two fish in the tank, a bigger one (healthy) and a smaller one (sick), although there's not a huge difference in their size. 

 

As mentioned above, they were rehomed from a relative a month ago and have been in the same tank with no other fish for a few years. 

 

I agree, I don't think he's constipated. Just thought there was no harm in trying it. I did think the 1 pellet each twice a day seemed very little, but I didn't want to immediately change the routine they were used to. I've been feeding the bigger one a bit more the last few days to give the smaller one (who seems to have lost some interest in food) a break from his attentions. How much would you recommend feeding? I know the guidelines say whatever they'll eat in 2 mins, but as they're sinking pellets it may take them 2 minutes or 2 seconds to find the food so that guideline doesn't seem particularly helpful.

 

Tests are with an API liquid test, I've checked a few times I'm following the correct process. pH initial tested with normal range and the high range.

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Mikey - there's just the two fish in the tank, a bigger one (healthy) and a smaller one (sick), although there's not a huge difference in their size. 

 

As mentioned above, they were rehomed from a relative a month ago and have been in the same tank with no other fish for a few years. 

 

I agree, I don't think he's constipated. Just thought there was no harm in trying it. I did think the 1 pellet each twice a day seemed very little, but I didn't want to immediately change the routine they were used to. I've been feeding the bigger one a bit more the last few days to give the smaller one (who seems to have lost some interest in food) a break from his attentions. How much would you recommend feeding? I know the guidelines say whatever they'll eat in 2 mins, but as they're sinking pellets it may take them 2 minutes or 2 seconds to find the food so that guideline doesn't seem particularly helpful.

 

Tests are with an API liquid test, I've checked a few times I'm following the correct process. pH initial tested with normal range and the high range.

okay, you are stocked well.

 

I don't follow any guideline, I just judge it :idont I use a tablespoon ( I have pretty big fish) and fill it to a certain amount of food, soak the food in some water and let them have it at. That is what has worked for me, but everyone has their own way of feeding.

 

So you did all the shaking involved in the nitrate test correctly I assume, correct?

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I'm sorry for your loss :hug

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I'm sorry he passed :hug

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Bummer :(. It is tough to tell but often gill damage from flukes and secondary infections from irritation or low immunity due to water quality (or poor nutrition) just compound and make things awful quickly. And they're not deadly until they are, you know? Oftentimes if we aren't watching our parameters these things can sneak up. And sometimes even the most fastidious fish keeper loses fish. I've lost one to infection two weeks ago and another to swim bladder issues last week, with NO tank issues. It can and does happen to the best of us.

With your remaining fish if you haven't treated for flukes please do. If it has been several years that is a common sense measure I personally recommend, especially given another fish having died. Gentle filter cleaning and a big water change would also not be misplaced :)

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I'm so sorry for your loss of your black moor.

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