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Red veins, fin deteration,


Sieta

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I have a beautiful 5in 1 year old fantail, who until recently has always been perfectly healthy. He out grew my 55gal tank with his other 3 goldfish and was moved into a Very densely and heavily planted 40b with my juvenile weather loaches until I can upgrade my main tank.

The move is when veins started showing in his fins. His addition caused a mini cycle that had very slight ammonia readings for two weeks until it caught up. I assumed the veins we're from this and they started to slowly fade.

However yesterday I noticed a significant increase in the veins as well as some splotchy broken blood vessels in other fins. Today the tips of some fins look poofy like the edges are starting to break down with rot. The loaches are all growing and healthy and the goldfish himself acts completely healthy aside from the fins. He is active, good appetite, no clamped fins etc...

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) now 0, very slight for 2 weeks about 2 months ago.

* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrate level(Tank)never above 15

* Ammonia Level(Tap)0

* Nitrite Level(Tap)0

* Nitrate level(Tap)0

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)7.2 7.5

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? ---api Liquid master kit

* Water temperature? ---72

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?--- 40b 9mo+

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? ---- 4 double barrel air driven sponges

* How often do you change the water and how much?---weekly 60%

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? ---Tuesday

* How many fish in the tank and their size?

---1 5" fantail, 6 juvenile golden dojo loaches from 2-4" 1 mystery snail

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? ---Prime

* What do you feed your fish and how often? ---- mix of nls thera a, algae Max, algae gel, shelled peas and broccoli, algae sticks with calcium once or twice a day.

* Any new fish added to the tank?--- goldfish in question, 3 baby loaches who had passed quarantine (2months)

* Any medications added to the tank? None

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. None

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? ---- bloody veins, splotches on fins, fin edge.deteriation

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?.---perfectly healthy behavior.

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From what I've there gathered, those could be ammonia burns trying to heal. Keep the water clean and see if the fish improves. Also Melafix and aquarium salt can be added which may speed the healing process.

Also, loaches need big tanks... So yours is overstocked quite severely.

Edited by mjfromga
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From what I've there gathered, those could be ammonia burns trying to heal. Keep the water clean and see if the fish improves. Also Melafix and aquarium salt can be added which may speed the healing process.

Also, loaches need big tanks... So yours is overstocked quite severely.

Hi there :). Thank you for trying to help a member, that was very sweet of you. Diagnosis is something we ask is left to the team here on Kokos to prevent conflicting or bad information, so if you can keep it to well wishes or just explaining what has worked for you in your own tanks in the past that would be more helpful here.

Thank you for your participation!

Sieta, I'm not seeing any red flag immediately with that stocking level in that tank given the small bioload of the loaches. It's not perfect for swimming space but your parameters look good. That fin redness is very mild and nothing I'd be alarmed over, but can you tell me the last time your goldfish was prazi'd? In my own tanks some inflammation at the base of the fins and a little lethargy and flashing have been indicators the fluke load is going up and maintenance prazi rounds are needed. I'm actually doing one right now for just that reason :)

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Hmm. I see. Understood. Have a nice day.

EDIT: I was just trying to help since the thread was posted on the 14th and not a single person had tried to help. Sorry if it was intrusive, but at least it got some more experienced people to try and help.

Edited by mjfromga
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Hmm. I see. Understood. Have a nice day.

EDIT: I was just trying to help since the thread was posted on the 14th and not a single person had tried to help. Sorry if it was intrusive, but at least it got some more experienced people to try and help.

 

You did and I thank you. You got the thread attention... again thank you :)

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Hmm. I see. Understood. Have a nice day.

EDIT: I was just trying to help since the thread was posted on the 14th and not a single person had tried to help. Sorry if it was intrusive, but at least it got some more experienced people to try and help.

No, the bump was very helpful, thank you! We definitely miss things at times, even those of us set to patrolling this forum :). You can also always use the report button if someone needs urgent help and we haven't seen it yet.

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Thank you for the responses, I'm sorry for not answering your questions and concerns sooner,I had stopped checking the thread after awhile so I'm just now finding them.

The last prazi treatment was about 9 months ago, at the time the Goldie was in a Goldie only tank. And obviously the 3 new loaches weren't treated because while they passed QT with flying colors I try to avoid any medications with them that are not absolutely necessary.

I will try the prazi, I've been keeping a close eye on him

And while the blood vessels seem to be going down the puffy edges has increased a small amount but nothing major. He still acts and seems completely healthy in every other aspect except the discoloration and texture on the fins. I'll post a new picture shortly.

What kind of possibility would there be of having a problem in my water supply? I have well water that turns everything orange after contact with air and has an oily film without my water softener running. Could that cause a problem? We have only had the new house for a bit over a year and always before used city water suppliers.

I appreciate the stocking concerns and advice,as the last thing I would want to do is keep my pets in an inappropriate home. The loaches are all still juvenile though and no where near their possible 12" length. I assure you the nitrates are barely there at the end of the week and the reason they are in a 40b is the fact they are mostly bottom dwellers and the 40b tanks actually have a larger bottom footprint than for instance a 55gal specifically to give them more play room while they grow,they also have many provided caves and tunnels. Currently even with as active as they are they don't even utilize have of the space they are in, but I do have many other large tanks waiting for them upon adulthood when they need, so no need to worry on that end :)

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Here is the new photo from this morning.

Also I seem to have been placed on moderators que? I've never been given any warnings unless it is due to the day I opened this thread I was on a new device and couldn't remember my log in info and was in such a panic over poor Choji that I tried to connect with Facebook and ended up starting a new account? I ended up having to hunt out my old device and finally connected my Facebook correctly. So if that is the case could this flag be removed please?

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The fish looks the same from what I see. Its been 9 days so no real change probably means it's time to try the moderators suggestion. Hope he gets better! I think two accounts is against the rules, not sure. Might want to ask Koko about this. Good luck!

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I'm getting ready to finish the first round of double prazipro/ .3% salt within the next couple of days.

I am seeing a decrease in the veins now, the broken vessel areas are completely gone, the fin edge deteration spots seem smaller but one small chunk is gone out of the edge that had it the worst.

How many rounds should I plan on going? The full 6 rounds or play it by ear you think?

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Thanks,

Quick question, do I continue to keep a .3% salt solution for the entire duration until round 6 or do I drop it down to .1% for round 2 on since I only double the prazi in the first round? (Sorry this is the first time I've done this particular method)

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Once I went to start treatment I noticed my other goldfish in the other tank starting to show symptoms as well the same as Choji, so I moved all of them in together to treat. It's now in the middle of the second round of prazipro and Choji has improved considerably to the point I would think he was fully recovered.... However 2 of the other ryukin goldfish have taken a turn for the worse.Lily has started some fin clamping and her bad spots have speead across her tail to look almost like fungus spots and Stripes has a very red and angry looking area under his belly in the fin area with some fungus looking spots as well he has been clamping and as of today bottom sitting. Please help, should I continue the prazi and .3% salt until 6 rounds or start something else?Lily

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Stripes

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Edited by Sieta
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The symptoms that are presenting are most likely fluke related. The fungus looks to be slime coat buildup which is common with flukes and fluke die off. Clamping is also normal but if that goes for more than a couple of days it could be a symptom of a secondary infection. Red at the base of fins is also a fluke symptom.

Keep up treatment. Give us an update tomorrow.

Just in case, what other meds do you have on hand?

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Yes the Loaches are in a separate tank now, only the goldfish are being treated.

I have to do my weekly water changes today anyway so I will go ahead and start treating all the rest of my tanks with the prazipro then, no salt. Will that be sufficient without the salt? One tank has the Loaches wich are of course salt sensitive and the others are heavily planted with salt sensitive plants.

Also I used the initial double dose prazi with .03 salt on the goldfish, do I still want to double the dose for the Loaches?

In my medicine arsenal I have of course the prazipro and salt as well as jungle fungus guard and Api parasite eliminator and methylene blue. I also have amazon prime so I can order anything else quickly if you think I'll need it.

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If you read instructions on any container of prazi, regardless of brand, you will not find a recommendation to use salt with it.  We include salt in the quarantine procedure, since salt has its own benefits for fish that may carry disease.    

 

When treating an established tank that shows signs of fluke infestation you can use two rounds of one week each either back-to-back or with a week's break in between.  While prazi kills adult flukes quite effectively, it may not work as well on fluke eggs or larvae.  The second round gives the (initially) immature forms time to mature to a sensitive stage.    

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I had continued round 2 of prazi with .3% salt in the goldfish tank. Yesterday 2 of my guys were having trouble swimming. They started floating up on their sides etc. They also stopped eating any food if it made it to the bottom and touched the sand. I did 2 emergency water changes (one day early for round 2 ending).

They have unclamped their fins but they are all bottom sitting under the sponge filter with the exception of Choji who occasionally swims out then goes right back. The others are still showing balance/strength issues.

I'm very very worried. Are these symptoms still to be expected?

I'm also seeing a ton of small squiggly worms swimming in the water column since I started treatments. I never did see any before this (I did have dirted potted plants in the tank that had a "dig" guard around the tops that I took out shortly after I began treatment.)

Could this this be detritus worms agitated by the salts etc? Or parasitic worms? The sand always gets a thorough cleaning every week with the exception of course for the mulm that gets trapped in the large amazon sword bowls that can't be reached. Nitrates were always under control with the exception of a few months ago the huge spike i had before I learned to put the canvas guards around the plant base and they got through the sand cap on the plants. I'm sure I've also had a good bit of mts snail die off from the salt during treatment.

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i doubt that the worms are parasitic. they are hairlike fine? right? if so, they are not an issue. i get them too from time to time ether through the water system or if i have not scrubbed the driftwood and plant roots frequently enough.

 

it is not uncommon for fish to react in a lethargic sort of a way to prazi. mine did and still do, however, it's usually on the the first round of prazi treatment and then by the second round, they've adjusted. the fact that their fins are no longer clamped is a good sign that the prazi is doing it's job. how is the one which displayed blood smears on the belly?

 

my gut feeling is that your guys are heavily infested with flukes (having taken a look at the photos you posted), that the parasite is giving the meds a run for it's money. nevertheless, the prazi program is a good one to be on, since after so many rounds, we're sure to have killed their cycle.

 

it does concern me that you are beginning to see floating on their sides. are you measuring the salt correctly? if you are sure that you are at .3%, if yes i would bring it down to .2% (just to see if that will make a difference). you can also try to feed peas to your fish in case they are experiencing some constipation.

 

it is strange that two are displaying the same floating symptom could you take a short video of this behaviour? once you've caught that on video, keep filming and try to encourage them to move, just so that we can see how restricted their movement is.

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