Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
TonySydney

Swim Bladder Issues

Recommended Posts

Hi Everyone, I think I know there is probably no treatment for what I am about to describe but in the interest of leaving no stone unturned here goes. My favourite butterfly telescope eye 'Buster' started occasionally floating upside down for a few seconds when I turned off the power filter in his tank or when he was in the bucket while I cleaned his tank.

 

He did this only if the water was still for a fairly long time and he did not do this every day. This started about two weeks ago. I then noticed it was happening any time I turned off the the power filter to feed the fish if the filter was off for more than 10 minutes. When I turned the filter back on he would right himself and swim about normally.

 

Then yesterday morning I looked into the tank as usual to check my two fish were ok and he was doing a head stand. When he saw me he righted himself and swam around as usual.

 

Today he is doing a lot more head standing. I just took this pic of him doing the headstand.

 

9AE5D334-5901-4381-963F-957F2181CD09_zps

 

When he saw me he righted himself again and swam about for a little while then went back to the head standing.

 

766AF39D-2A39-4A07-9C7B-06B8D21BD6B2_zps

 

I did an 80% water change three days ago.

 

I just did a water test:

 

pH 7.6

Ammonia 0ppm

Nitrite 0ppm

Nitrate 3ppm

 

It is a 300 litre tank, it has 1 x internal power filter rated 600-1000 litres per hour and 1 x external power filter, an Eheim Professional 3

 

I only feed gel foods, Repashy Soilent Green, New Life Spectrum Nutri Gel and Algae Gel

 

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts here.

 

While I have your attention can anyone tell me if Ranchu easier to keep? Are they less prone to swim bladder issues?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to suggest a shallow qt with duck weed in it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Koko I will do that now, I keep the small internal power filter going just for this purpose. Is 12 inches deep shallow enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ideally 6 inches.  You want to make normal position easy to maintain.  This and the delicious duckweed encourages exercise and good digestive tract activity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The small power filter is too powerful for the plastic tub I am using, can I get by with regular water changes, maybe half the volume per day?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

D02C459C-AF8B-41D8-BA23-2425CA498094_zps

 

This is the biggest tub I have, it is only used for the goldfish tank so it is safe. I have 6 inches of water in it and the Duckweed. The small internal power filter was too powerful for this small volume of water so I will make regular water changes to keep the water safe. Would someone please advise how much water to change and how often?

Many thanks Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes,  you can get by with water changes.  You just  have to test every day.

 

Start with 50% per day.

Edited by shakaho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Shakaho and to everyone for their advice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Sharon for helping.... :) Great work guys... Now little fish eat and relax :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He doesn't seem to be eating yet and is mostly in the upside down position. I will keep making the water changes they seem to get him swimming about,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought I would give everyone an update: He has been eating the duckweed and I cleaned out a fair bit of poop just now. He is still upside down most of the time. I am keeping up the water changes and adding more Duckweed to the tank. Cheers Tony 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Green poop?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes green poop, he is still mostly upside down though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes green poop, he is still mostly upside down though.

I say give him time :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Koko I will give him time.  He seems well otherwise, he is more on his side now, so I am hoping that means things are improving for him. Not much poop this morning though so he hasn't been eating much duckweed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is evening here and there is no poop in the tank today & he has been upside down all day. Is there anything else I should be doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It now sounds like the fish has an infection, since swim bladder disorder does not affect the appetite.  Do you have any antibiotics on hand or available locally?  I have reported this to get help from those who know what medications you can get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Helen has reported that she uses  Metronidazole, Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride and Tri Sulfa to treat bacterial infections.

 

You can order  oxytetracycline hydrochloride and the tri sulfa from vet n pet direct:

 

oxymav-b http://www.vetnpetdi...MB#.Vpjykfl95D8

tri sulfa http://www.vetnpetdi...ts#.Vpjyvvl95D8

 

You can order the metronidazole from Helen if you have no other source.

 

Please let us know if you have any antibiotics now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly when I got up this morning and checked on Buster he was dead in his tank.   :no:

 

I really don't understand what I am doing wrong here. I do an 80% weekly water change which includes thoroughly vacuuming of their tank (I actually remove all the plants which are growing on rocks and driftwood so I can do a thorough job) When i test the water the parameters are always good. The tank has double the filtering capacity it needs. I only feed them gel foods now to reduce the chance of constipation and I only feed them two or three very small meals a day.

 

I started with 4 fish and now I am down to the last fish which has been sitting on the bottom of the tank this afternoon for short periods. I may be anthropomorphising here but I think he misses Buster they were always swimming around together.  He swims around a lot still and when i go near the tank. He still has a good appetite. How are the fish getting infections if I keep their environment clean?

 

I am a rules guy and I have been diligently following all the things I have learned here but nothing seems to work. I want to keep goldfish, I think they are beautiful but I feel like I am condemning them to a sure death if I get any more.

Edited by TonySydney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm sorry, Tony.

 

i put it down to pure luck and quality of the breeding facility vs amount of travel...  however, it seems that all fish i get from China and Singapore tend to fall ill and not respond to treatments very well, if at all, leading me to think that they may medicate preventively. that is just suspicion, i really don't know.

 

i have better luck with fish from Japan, but even then, it's pure luck. pay through the nose for them and wait n see. in ornamental goldfish, the longest run i had was Leonidis and perhaps Chubber Chu. both lived for approx 3-4 years in my care, both from Japan. Leon plagued with tumors and Chubber lived a relative sick free life in the main tank, until she got sick.. then she spent near enough to 9 months in hospital tank, twice daily wc's meds replenished every day, twice a day.. the routine was just draining. she just kept relapsing once off the meds and on the day i would hold hopes of transferring her back to the main, bang! relapse. and that kept going for 9 months.

 

so there really aren't any answers.

 

i have tried to be very good with filter maintenance. cleaning it every month, every few months, every 1/4 year, every 1/2 year. (i've been at this long enough now)... and i will be very honest in saying, it matters none. it makes no difference how clean my tanks are, how clean the filters are, nothing. if the fish is going to fall ill, then that's what is going to happen. currently, i clean my filters every 6 months. i have 4 goldfish in a 120g who are fed once a day (if they're lucky) and i do WC's every other week. fish seem happy.

 

i found that what matters is how well they respond to treatments. i think that in the first 7 days, if you have not seen significant results using antibiotics to treat a fish with symptoms of infection, then you can be pretty sure that the fish will not make it.

 

keeping goldfish isn't for everyone... i must say. the only aquarists who should keep goldfish are those that form no real attachment to one single fish. sounds harsh? it's true. these fish are so prone to illness that their lifespan is significantly reduced if not from illness, from being medicated. i don't think a goldfish ever builds back a strong immune system once ill and/or medicated. i do think that once symptoms of infection are visible to us, then it may already be too late.

 

goldfish are social creatures. once some odd behaviour like hiding behind an ornament or plants etc is observed lets say for more than 4-6 hours... i think it's a good call to sound the alarm. naturally, we start with checking water params and move forwards from there. early detection is the key, in my honest opinion.

 

anyhow. i could just keep rambling on.. but that's my two cents on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry for your loss Tony :(

Helen makes a lot of good points. So far my most long lived fish have all being petstock fish. Last Year I lost 5 fish after having no losses for 3 years...last year was just one issue after another and I was beyond frustrated. There are a lot of factors that influence a fish but the fancies do seem prone to problems. I get super attached to most of my fish as well so it is really hard to lose them. But all we can do is do the best we can to provide a healthy environment, as Helen said even with perfect conditions illness takes over :( It's no fun but happens with goldies a lot I've learned, and doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong (even though I questioned myself A LOT over the past year!)

 

I wouldn't give up having goldies though...because the joy and relaxation I get out of them when they are healthy outweighs the hurt from when they are sick or die, even when it does happen a lot. I just hope this year goes a lot better for my fish than last!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you follow all the rules for maintaining your health, you can still get sick.  We all carry parasites and pathogens that our immune system keeps under control.  Harmless bacteria can undergo a mutation that makes them virulent.  You did nothing wrong.  If anyone did something wrong, I did in not making sure you had antibiotics on hand to treat the fish if it developed symptoms other than floatiness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Helen, FishMandy & shakaho for your kind words and feedback. I do get very attached to my fish. I am buying Chinese imports I think, I will ask at the different fish shops I go to if they get Japanese Imports. I actually feel heart sick when I see the fish suffering and nothing I do helps it.

 

I have had marine aquaria with fish & corals in the past and they were easier to keep healthy than goldfish. I have four small tanks of tropical fish as well as the goldfish now and I only ever lose a fish to old age in the tropical tanks. I actually have some Neon Tetras that are still going and have so far lived twice their usual life spans.

 

I was wondering if Ranchu might be hardier than the butterfly telescope eyes, the Ranchu have longer bodies which I hope could mean less swim bladder issues.

 

I now have hundreds of dollars of different high end gold fish foods and only one goldfish. I will have to find someone who can use them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone did something wrong, I did in not making sure you had antibiotics on hand to treat the fish if it developed symptoms other than floatiness.

if you come across this again with an AU member, i can express post overnight anything i have available.. just contact me and it's done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Helen. I just euthanized an oranda the other night who became sick with an infection when no one else in the tank had any problems. Water was fine, everything was normal, no diet changes, boom. Is it bad to say that I sometimes don't even treat if I can tell they're going downhill fast? I'll only administer medication to a fish I think acutely stands a chance to make it. That's just the way it goes sometimes.

Another one of my fish had a congenital swim bladder issue that has gone from poor swimming to pinned upside down and barely able to make it to the bottom. One lobe of the swim bladder is much bigger than the other, poor guy. He is perky and healthy but if fasting/soft plant food and antibiotics won't help whatever aggregated his swim bladder issues he is also being put down. He is one of my favorites but I know how these things go - if this treatment doesn't work nothing will and it's only a matter of time before his exposed spot begins to get sore and opens him up to infection and suffering, which I don't want. I'd rather put him down then watch him suffer.

Goldfish are beautiful but I don't get attached as much as I can - they're stock, lovely and personable stock but still just animals. I do my very best to care for them and am happy when one has good health and longevity beyond a few years. With fancies that's the best one can often hope for and I think it's good to make peace with that. Some are hardy, some delicate, all very special and unique. But we can't hope and will them to perfect health their bodies might not allow for. We provide the environment and nutrition they need and the rest is out of our hands by and large.

Tony, I'm sorry he died on you :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
  • Create New...