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Sick or shipping stress?


JamieMonster

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Hello all- it's been a while.  I got a cute new tele yesterday (about 1.25"), and s/he arrived laying belly up, in the bag (bottom resting, not surface floating). 28 hours later, there's been no change. The fish is alert and will look at me, when I come to the tank- tries to swim around, and can upright itself and swim off of the bottom, but doesn't stay upright, and takes a break upside down on the bottom of the colander again, shortly after. S/he is interested in food (SG), but I have withheld it, except for a tiny piece to see if an appetite was present. The fish was also pooping, this morning (normal color, not stringy, no crinkles). 

 

The shipping took 3 days, there wasn't a heat pack, and the box was insulated with crumpled brown paper- I'm not sure if s/he may have gotten too cold, or if that info is helpful. (I'm in Chicagoland- s/he didn't sit outside, after delivery. Someone got the mail immediately, when dropped off)

 

I've e-mailed Jeff (Hiller- where I purchased the fish) to see if he has any recommendations, but have yet to hear back. I don't want to delay treatment, if it is necessary.

 

Meds on hand= methylene blue, epsom salt, erythromycin, canning salt, MMs.

 

Params= 0/0/20  

W/C= 70% 2Xs / week- changed yesterday.

150 gallon, 2 sun sun 4 stage filters with UV, moderately planted (anacharis and giant hygro)

 

stock= 11 goldfish largest is a fat demekin tele, about 4 inches, most of the rest are between 2-3" and growing + a handful of nerite snails.

 

No recent illnesses- I had something hit that quickly took 3 fish several months ago (reason undetermined), but nothing since. 

 

I can upload a video later, if needed.

 

Does shipping stress sometimes cause this, or is there possibly a swimbladder issue?

 

Thanks so much! 

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Is your brand new fish in with your already established stock or in a separate tank for qt? If on the same tank, id suggest moving to a general qt. That way, if you have to treat with meds, you arent treating 150g and 11 fish. [emoji16]

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I have a tele from Jeff, as well as some other types. Mine is the tippiest of the stock I was sent but perfectly healthy. They come from lines that are very compressed and I think the tricolors he sells may just have dodgy swimbladders on the whole. We haven't had floatiness thankfully but with his excellent husbandry I'd be shocked if it was an illness that soon after shipping.

Feed only duckweed or soft greens for a few days and see if it doesn't rectify. But my experience with that family of fish is that they are of great health with really compressed bodies. That can mean happy fish who toddle and bobble around.

If this was his spawn from earlier in the year we may have sibling fishies :)

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Is your brand new fish in with your already established stock or in a separate tank for qt? If on the same tank, id suggest moving to a general qt. That way, if you have to treat with meds, you arent treating 150g and 11 fish. [emoji16]

Hello, thanks for the reply. Yeah, s/he is in with the general population. Since Jeff is so amazing with his fish, I saw zero risk to adding anything nasty to my tank, with the addition. He's pretty great! I can definitely move to QT, if necessary.

 

I have a tele from Jeff, as well as some other types. Mine is the tippiest of the stock I was sent but perfectly healthy. They come from lines that are very compressed and I think the tricolors he sells may just have dodgy swimbladders on the whole. We haven't had floatiness thankfully but with his excellent husbandry I'd be shocked if it was an illness that soon after shipping.

Feed only duckweed or soft greens for a few days and see if it doesn't rectify. But my experience with that family of fish is that they are of great health with really compressed bodies. That can mean happy fish who toddle and bobble around.

If this was his spawn from earlier in the year we may have sibling fishies :)

Hello, thank you! Yes, it is one of the tele babies from the tricolor momma. An adorable, fat, little chunk. My largest in the tank is also a super chunk tele, and he bobbles about like a fatty see-saw. His "wife", another super chunk tele, does the same thing, but she's more of a wiggler than a see-saw.

 

Maybe we have siblings!?!? That would be fun. It is from the tricolor spawn that he has listed, currently- so, probably same momma, at least.

 

I was more wondering if the fish could have gotten too cold and there could be a swimbladder issue triggered that way- or, if this could be a symptom of shipping, in general. I've never seen shipping shock. I didn't really think pathogen, or that he shipped the fish that way. I'm just concerned of the swimbladder deflating, and leaving me with a bottom sinker. I will see if I can get some duckweed- I know they sell it on Ebay, I'll look for an aquarium grown batch. HOPEFULLY, it will be rectified, before it gets here and they can all just have a nice snack. Would blanched spinach be a suitable alternative, in the meantime?

 

As Taryl said, if you can get duckweed, feed that exclusively.   If not, I'd feed peas and leafy greens.  

Thanks Shakaho! I have spinach that I can boil to mush- I can also do peas or smashed, canned green beans- which would be preferred.

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Today's update- still no change. Laying on back on the bottom of the colander, and can swim up the curve of the sides to right itself- can maintain buoyancy upright in the middle for a bit, but will go back to resting belly up on the bottom of the colander and hang out there, shortly after. Spontaneous activity here and there, but not for long. Mostly active, when begging for food when I'm at the tank. Still waiting to see if Jeff responds.

 

Starting some smooshy boiled spinach, today- will feed only very small quantities. Off to look for some duckweed.

 

Thanks, guys!  :thumb:

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Feeding peas and spinach- still no change, as of yet. S/he seems to be getting a little irritation on the top of the eye that is on the bottom of the colander, as well. Should I still be hoping for recovery, after this many days without improvement?  

 

Thanks.

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Have you discussed this with the seller?  A seller who bred the fish often knows what symptoms the fish might develop.

 

Some fish float belly up in response to cold water.  This symptom usually subsides when the fish gets in warmer water.

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Have you discussed this with the seller?  A seller who bred the fish often knows what symptoms the fish might develop.

 

Some fish float belly up in response to cold water.  This symptom usually subsides when the fish gets in warmer water.

 

Thank you! I e-mailed when I received the fish, and he isn't responding. The tank is heated and kept at 75, since I have fat/compressed fish, and they seem to do better in the slightly warmer water. I just did another round of crushed peas and will see what we're looking at, in the morning. QT tomorrow afternoon, when I get home from work, if there's no change.

 

Do you recommend adding salt for the eye irritation? No open sores, just a foggy spot (doesn't look like fungus or anything- it is where s/he rests on the bottom of the colander- s/he isn't floating, but laying belly up on the bottom. Still eating, still can swim a bit and begs for food).

Edited by JamieMonster
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So sorry this isn't getting better.

 

I'm just guessing here, but it appears you have pretty much eliminated digestive problems as a cause.  You might try epsom salt at a concentration of 1 teaspoon per ten gallons which should get a sluggish digestive system moving.

 

The fish might have suffered a trauma to the swim bladder during shipment.  I don't understand why the seller does not cooperate, since the shipping company should be responsible for such damage.  

 

Unfortunately, when you have extreme short, fat fish you can expect a high incidence of swim bladder disorders.  They come as a package.  Some such fish can be helped by surgery, but few vets do this and only at a very high price.  

 

You can use salt for the irritated eye.  It may help and certainly won't do harm.

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Okie dokie. Thank you! I will try e-mailing him, again. The box wasn't heated, and wasn't even marked as fragile or containing a live animal. There is some damage to the outside of the box- so, IDK if this is an injury. Going to QT tonight. I'll do salt and epsom- I am also going to try a round of MMs, just to see if it will help.

 

The fish is TEENY, so I don't think surgery would be an option. If it were- well, I hate to say it, but I already spent $70 on buying the fish. It would be nice f I would get a response- I don't want to have to do a paypal claim, but I also don't think I should just have to eat the cost of a sick/injured fish, that arrived to me that way. 

 

Would doing a little harness to see if we could reposition the swimbladder potentially work? I can get a bobber and the supplies. I'd like to try to save him, if possible. 

 

Thanks again for all of your help. Let me know if you'd like a video, after I get the cutie into QT.

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I'll hold off on the MMs for a couple of days, to see what happens with the epsom salts. Continue with peas and spinach, or go ahead and give SG (I mix mine to be even a little more "liquid", with 1/4 c powder to a full c water)?

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It's looking like we might actually have constipation going on. The diet has been peas and spinach for the past 3-4 days, and there is now a pretty long string of brown poop coming out- it should be bright green, if it were what I was feeding.**fingers crossed**

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That sounds good.  The harnesses really don't work.

Darn it. LOL. Well, it was worth a thought.

 

And, s/he is still pooping. A lot. I put the heater in QT, too- it is a non-adjustable one that keeps the tank at 78, so hopefully that will help speed it along a little, as well. I'll also fast for a couple of days. This fish certainly doesn't need *more* food/poop in there.

 

So far, there's a lot more actual activity in the 10 gallons, instead of the colander. Still wanting to flip upside down, but, from what I can see, not having lots of difficulty with different levels of buoyancy and can flip right side up for a bit. Mostly a belly up floater instead of a resting on bottom, belly up sinker, when taking a break, now.

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It sounds like your fish, like mine, is just prone to swimbladder issues and that it can be easily exacerbated by stress or illness. I agree tracking down duckweed is the best idea - that stuff is like manna from heaven for goldfish.

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Ordering now! I found some on e-bay.

 

Pooping has stopped, but we are now stuck at the top, and s/he doesn't seem to be able to get down, very easily. The duckweed will be on the surface, with the fish. 

Edited by JamieMonster
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