Hikari PraziPro with salt? during quarantine

[lizam 173]

So I am getting a new baby pearlscale this weekend.  I saw them in another town near me and got pretty excited.   ​I'm super excited because although orandas have my heart those little pearscales always make me smile too.

 

I was reading a post a few weeks back where I read that Hikari did not recommend using salt with their fluke treatment, PraziPro.  I just wanted to check if this was true.  I only have PraziPro so I just want to make sure that during the quarantine period it is effective.

Edited November 7, 2015 by lizam

[DawnMichele 6,045]

Congratulations!!!!!

[fantailfan1 26,742]

I would suggest doing 0.3% salt for 2 weeks then doing Prazi either without salt or at 0.1%.

Congrats on the new fish!!

[jmetzger72 6,976]

Yes, Hikari has said on multiple occasions not to use "any" salt with Prazipro liquid.  You can, however, use salt at any concentration with Prazi powder.  I do what Fantailfan1 suggested above:  0.3% salt for the first two weeks followed by Prazi with no salt afterwards. 

[lizam 173]

I would suggest doing 0.3% salt for 2 weeks then doing Prazi either without salt or at 0.1%.

Congrats on the new fish!!

 

 

Yes, Hikari has said on multiple occasions not to use "any" salt with Prazipro liquid.  You can, however, use salt at any concentration with Prazi powder.  I do what Fantailfan1 suggested above:  0.3% salt for the first two weeks followed by Prazi with no salt afterwards. 

Great thanks very much!!  The salt treatment will be good for them I'm sure.  When I saw them last week they had just come to the store and had ich.  So I want to make sure they get a really good quarantine period

[fantailfan1 26,742]

Make sure to keep the salt at 0.3% for at least 7 days after you see the last spot of ich. And raise temp to 78-80*.

[Cdionne77 862]

Oh my... I have used salt with the liquid prazi. I thought that was the norm. I actually have a fish in QT now with both...dang it!!!!

[Calamity 418]

Oh my... I have used salt with the liquid prazi. I thought that was the norm. I actually have a fish in QT now with both...dang it!!!!

Yeah everyone on this forum has told me to use my liquid prazipro and salt together multiple times, since I joined the forum.....

Even used them together with my betta. 

The only rules I ever saw were too double the strength when it was at .3% salt.

[shakaho 6,313]

I understood that the information dnalex received from Hikari said that one could use up to 0.2% salt with Prazipro, but you had to double the Prazipro concentration with 0.3% salt.  When did this change?

 

I also understood that we used salt with prazi during quarantine to protect against infection of the wounds left by dying flukes.

 

The University of FL extension recommends salt dips (2.5%) at the start of quarantine.  They also recommend 2-3 weeks of continuous treatment with prazi for flukes.  

 

If Prazipro  does have the near magical property of working in fresh water and sea water but not in freshwater with a little salt added, doing a salt dip, treating for 2 weeks with prazipro, then with 0.3% salt for a week might be a good choice.

[jmetzger72 6,976]

This has been a frustrating discussion with Hikari.  I talked with Alex about his conclusions a while back and I think he postulated the use of double Prazi with salt based on his own sound logic and knowledge.  I don't think that was suggested by Hikari.  The problem is that Hikari now says not to use salt with Prazipro.  Maybe they've done more research or have changed the formula since that discussion.  Either way, I'm quite sure no one here has done real scientific research to prove whether or not salt diminishes the efficacy of the liquid suspension Prazipro.  I imagine Hikari has done quite a bit of research on their own product, so I feel it wise to take their advice.  I can't see how it would benefit them to say salt diminished their product if they didn't believe it to be true?

 

If secondary infections are a concern, antibiotic food or powders can be used along with Prazipro.  Many people do this as part of their new fish quarantine anyway and it is probably a more effective treatment than 0.1% salt.  The other way around this problem is to use a Prazi powder with salt for quarantine and reserve the use of liquid Prazipro without salt for routine maintenance rounds.

 

PS:  Yes, the fact that you can use Prazipro in marine tanks but not in freshwater with salt seems idiotic, but Hikari says it has something to do with the chemical make-up of marine salt versus normal salt

Edited November 8, 2015 by Jared

[lizam 173]

I am going to today to pick up the goldfish.   I have my quarantine tank set up.  I got a call during the week that said the fish have been treated for ich.  But  I will do the 2 weeks of .3% salt solution and then start the Prazi treatment.  

 

Maybe the quarantine guidelines need to be updated?  I know that PraziPro is way easier and cheaper to get than the powder, at least where I live.

[lizam 173]

Oh my... I have used salt with the liquid prazi. I thought that was the norm. I actually have a fish in QT now with both...dang it!!!!

It is confusing 

[jmetzger72 6,976]

I am going to today to pick up the goldfish.   I have my quarantine tank set up.  I got a call during the week that said the fish have been treated for ich.  But  I will do the 2 weeks of .3% salt solution and then start the Prazi treatment.  

 

Maybe the quarantine guidelines need to be updated?  I know that PraziPro is way easier and cheaper to get than the powder, at least where I live.

The powder goes further, so in the long run, It isn't really much more expensive.  I order everything online anyway, so it isn't any harder for me to get than the Prazipro.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Jared

[shakaho 6,313]

The problem is that Hikari now says not to use salt with Prazipro.  Maybe they've done more research or have changed the formula since that discussion.  

PS:  Yes, the fact that you can use Prazipro in marine tanks but not in freshwater with salt seems idiotic, but Hikari says it has something to do with the chemical make-up of marine salt versus normal salt

I'm not arguing, I just don't understand.  Where does this information come from, Jared?  Did you talk to a customer service represenative at Hikari?  I have searched for any information from them on the subject and can't find it.  We also appear to be the only forum that has this information.  If low concentrations of salt reduce the efficiency of Prazipro one would expect that the instructions for use would include a warning against having salt in the water since many people use aquarium salt routinely.

[jmetzger72 6,976]

Yes, that is the answer that I and a couple of other members have received from their customer service representatives over the phone.  The bottle also says not to use with any other drugs or disease treatments, but that is a little too broad which is why we called.

 

I will be happy to call them again to be sure.  Their answers are always a little cryptic.  

 

Sharon, I appreciate your questions because I think discussions like this help us to unearth fallacies and protect the credibility of the advice found on this forum

Edited November 8, 2015 by Jared

[jmetzger72 6,976]

I just emailed them:

 

Hello,

 

I am a member on a popular fish forum.  Your product, Prazipro is one that we frequently recommend to new members for the treatment of flukes in freshwater goldfish tanks.  My question is regarding the use of salt at various concentrations (0.1%, 0.2%, 0.3%) along with Prazipro in freshwater.  We understand from telephone discussions with your customer service representatives that aquarium salt may diminish the efficacy of Prazipro when used in freshwater aquariums.  This seems odd since Prazipro can be used effectively in marine systems.  Can you verify this information?

 

Thank You

 

I will let you know what they say.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Jared

[shakaho 6,313]

Thanks, Jared.  

[Cdionne77 862]

Thanks Jared

[jmetzger72 6,976]

Response from Hikari:

 

Jared – Thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your support of our products.  Concentrations of salt above 0.20 ppm will cause the active ingredient to become ineffective. The salt used in a freshwater aquarium is different from that used in a marine tank.

The Hikari Customer Service Team

 

http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/number/PPM_to_Percent.htm

 

I get 0.20 ppm = 0.00002% 

 

Edited November 9, 2015 by Jared

[Calamity 418]

.2 is 1/5th. 1/5th of 1 milllion.

Which is 200,000

Enter that as parts per thousand

http://www.saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/SgPptConv.php

.3% barley registers on specific gravity.

[jmetzger72 6,976]

So, I think the take away here (again) is that Hikari says not to use salt with their Prazipro

 

I am going to try to contact Aqua Meds to verify that Aqua Prazi (powder) is indeed effective with salt at any concentration.  I believe it is, but it never hurts to double check

Edited November 10, 2015 by Jared

[shakaho 6,313]

 

Response from Hikari:

 

Jared – Thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your support of our products.  Concentrations of salt above 0.20 ppm will cause the active ingredient to become ineffective. The salt used in a freshwater aquarium is different from that used in a marine tank.

The Hikari Customer Service Team

 

http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/number/PPM_to_Percent.htm

 

I get 0.20 ppm = 0.00002% 

 

 

In other words, undetectable levels of salt will inactivate Prazipro.  Wow!  And who knew that seawater doesn't contain NaCl?  One doesn't expect the people they hire to answer telephones and e-mail to be experts,  but they should be expected to be able to read the answers to the FAQs.

[jmetzger72 6,976]

 

 

Response from Hikari:

 

Jared – Thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your support of our products.  Concentrations of salt above 0.20 ppm will cause the active ingredient to become ineffective. The salt used in a freshwater aquarium is different from that used in a marine tank.

The Hikari Customer Service Team

 

http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/number/PPM_to_Percent.htm

 

I get 0.20 ppm = 0.00002% 

 

 

In other words, undetectable levels of salt will inactivate Prazipro.  Wow!  And who knew that seawater doesn't contain NaCl?  One doesn't expect the people they hire to answer telephones and e-mail to be experts,  but they should be expected to be able to read the answers to the FAQs.

 

Yeah, I don't know all the chemistry behind this particular product.  I just know that Hikari says not to use Prazipro with salt.  That's why I use Aqua Prazi.

 

I followed up with this:

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond.  I have one more question.  Some of our members have adopted the method of doubling the recommended dose of Prazipro when using it along with salt at 0.3% (1 Tablespoon of salt per gallon of water).  They feel that this compensates for the diminished efficacy of the praziquantel with salt.  Is this an effective strategy? 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Jared

[lizam 173]

I found this online for Canadians:  

 

 

http://www.canadianpondsonline.com/prod374.html

 

It says you can use with any amount of salt.  Would this be better to get?

Edited November 10, 2015 by lizam

[jmetzger72 6,976]

I found this online for Canadians:  

 

 

http://www.canadianpondsonline.com/prod374.html

 

It says you can use with any amount of salt.  Would this be better to get?

That's what I would do