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Bmitchell486

Quick Help Needed for Ich and Other Infection

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That sounds like a cyst to me. Nothing you can really do with that until it pops. The best thing to do is to watch it for now. Would it be possible for someone to hold her gently while you take the picture or vice-versa?

Was she at .3% already and then you halved it? If she was in .3% before the water change, adding it all back in at once will be like nothing to her since she is already used to it, but do whatever makes you feel comfortable :)

Edited by Mikey

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That sounds like a cyst to me. Nothing you can really do with that until it pops. The best thing to do is to watch it for now. Would it be possible for someone to hold her gently while you take the picture or vice-versa?

Was she at .3% already and then you halved it? If she was in .3% before the water change, adding it all back in at once will be like nothing to her since she is already used to it, but do whatever makes you feel comfortable :)

 

Hey Mikey,

 

Yeah, I was googling pictures last night and was wondering if it is a cyst.  She's pretty docile and holds very still while I take pictures, so that's not the issue.  It's just that it doesn't show up in a pic yet.  It's still behind the scale and is very subtle.  The only camera I have that takes pictures that close up is my iphone 6, and it just can't get that kind of clarity in a close enough shot.

 

And no, I'd separated her out yesterday morning when I noticed her raised scales.  I'd read that aquarium salt can actually cause the fish to retain more fluid, thus worsening the dropsey symptom, so I'd put her in just epsom salt.  After reading Sharon's comment, I did 100% water change (removing the epsom) and then slowly added the aquarium salt back to a level of .15% salinity.  

 

Thanks for the help!

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Update:  The female calico ryukin, with the raised scales --- This morning I woke up to her barrel rolling.  She's not really taking a break either, just constant rolling, sometimes slowly and sometimes quickly.  I didn't notice any flashing, just rolling.  My husband worked a late shift, so he came home in the middle of the night and said he noticed it then too..... 

 

It came on fast, because before it was just a little wobbly swimming.  You can see from the pictures yesterday, she could mostly hold herself upright.  This morning, all she did was spin without resting.  I obviously can't capture this in a picture.  If anyone needs to see a video, let me know.  I can get one this evening when I get home from work and post a youtube link. (I wish I'd thought to do that this morning, but I've been working 10-12 hour days everyday and I was in a rush to get out the door).

 

I don't know how serious it is, but I'm pretty worried about her.  She's still in .15% salinity... I didn't want to change anything else on her until I heard from you all. 

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I lost three fish this summer all of which exhibited a rolling/spinning action when they tried to swim.  They were all in the same pond (now quarantined).  I have not found any explanation of this condition.  Sorry for the discouragement.

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So, I realize there are lots of fish I've mentioned, and lots of comments in this thread.  Based on all the discussion we've had, I have a few questions on how to proceed:

 

For the main tank with Ich -- my plan is to continue with .3% salinity and 82 degree water.  As of this morning, still no relief - they all have the same amount of ich.  I'm doing 50% water change each day as well, and I can see probably thousands of little white ich pieces being sucked up each time. -- Is this a good approach? Should I do anything differently?

 

For the new Ranchu with dropsey (cause unknown) - Should I continue to leave him in the epsom water (1/2 tsp epsom salt per 10 gallons)? His scales are not completely laying down yet -- they're still slightly raised.  Should I continue the epsom until the scales lie flat, or should I remove the epsom and see what happens? I have kanaplex if I need to add that

 

For the Ryukin with a few raised scales, and is rolling/twirling - She's in .3% salinity with 83 degree water.  She looks like a cyst, or something like that, might be about to come out from behind one of her raised scales.  She still has ich as well.  Should I change anything for her, or leave her as she is and wait to see what happens?  I'm worried about her.  I hope someone can help diagnose what is causing her symptoms.

 

Thanks in advance for the advice.

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I'm sorry you are having such an epidemic of illness right now. I can understand how frustrating and helpless that can feel :hug

Just to confirm some things. When you mentioned your new fish are in qt, what procedure of qt are you following? Are they getting any type of preventatory treatments?

In the main tank, have you ever treated for flukes before?

With the dropsy fish in Epsom, how many days has the fish been in Epsom?

With the whirling fish, it is a symptom of a pretty much unknown reasons, at one point it was thought to be neurological. I am wondering how long that fish has been in that temp?

I am just gathering questions that the mods may need to confirm the path you are to take. Give them some time to confer :hug

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I'm sorry you are having such an epidemic of illness right now. I can understand how frustrating and helpless that can feel :hug

Just to confirm some things. When you mentioned your new fish are in qt, what procedure of qt are you following? Are they getting any type of preventatory treatments?

 

- The new ranchu's arrived and were put into a 29 gallon tank by themselves.  The calico arrived with dropsey (don't know the cause, hopefully just stress).  I put them at .1% salinity at day 2, and within 36 hours I had them at .3% salinity.  I also have been following the prazi treatment plan, started on day 3.   They were getting 50% water change a day to keep the water super clean.  They are in a separate room, with their own food and their own hose.  I was doing my best not to cross-contaminate... and I failed miserably :(  

 

In the main tank, have you ever treated for flukes before?

 

- Yes, I dose prazi every 6 months in my main tank.

 

With the dropsy fish in Epsom, how many days has the fish been in Epsom?

 

- I pulled the calico ranchu with dropsey out of the 29 gallon... probably 4 days ago, if I remember correctly?  I had read where aquarium salt would actually cause the fish to retain more water, thus worsening the dropsey symptom.  I put him in a 20 gal tote, with 1/2 tsp epsom and prazi.  

 

With the whirling fish, it is a symptom of a pretty much unknown reasons, at one point it was thought to be neurological. I am wondering how long that fish has been in that temp?

 

- Yeah, I'd read it could be neurological, but I don't know how that would have happened.  She was not dropped or anything.  Since the illness set in earlier this week, she began having a few raised scales 1-2 days ago, and that's when she looked just a little dizzy while she was swimming, but she wasn't barrel rolling continuously like she is now.  To answer your question, once I noticed the ich... I think it was Monday or Tuesday... I started raising the temp from their normal 72, to 82.  Now, since she's in her own 20 gal tote, I have an extra heater that doesn't have a dial on it.  It's supposed to keep it at 78, but it'd consistently reading at 83.  (Since I have my main tank, the 29, and 3 more totes.... I can't afford to go out and buy the best heaters/filters for that many QT's ... I am just glad that I have enough suitable equipment from all my fishkeeping over the years.  I normally just make sure I keep totes 20 gal totes, and always have 1 extra good heater/filter for a QT emergency)

I am just gathering questions that the mods may need to confirm the path you are to take. Give them some time to confer :hug

 

Hi Bodoba!  I've answered your questions above.  Thanks so much for your help!!!

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** Sorry, my brain is fried from long stressful workdays this week :)  The main tank (with the spinning ryukin) started having troubles on Tuesday evening.  I started raising the temp tuesday evening and by wednesday morning I had it set to 82.

 

The calico ranchu arrived with the dropsey on Tuesday, september 29th.  It wasn't severe.. very slight.  I thought it was stress related so I didn't want to do too much treatment other than allow him to recover with lights mostly off.  Once the dropsey progressed, I think I separated him over the weekend.... Let's say Sunday, October 3rd.

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I lost three fish this summer all of which exhibited a rolling/spinning action when they tried to swim.  They were all in the same pond (now quarantined).  I have not found any explanation of this condition.  Sorry for the discouragement.

 

I have the greatest news!  My ryukin has stopped rolling!  After reading the comments, I was heartbroken and was preparing myself that this would probably be untreatable and ultimately fatal. Last night she was super bad, just never took a break from fast spinning.  But, I have no idea why (since we don't know why it started in the first place) but this morning I woke up and she's completely righted herself!  :hi5  She's not very actively swimming, but she's swimming around a little, and is a tad wobbly.  I got a picture last night of her cyst/white spot behind her scales, but whatever that was cleared up and is gone.  Her raised scales are about 50% better.

 

Two things are a little confusing and frustrating.  The first thing is -- why hasn't the ich improved?  They all still have the same amount of ich that they did on tuesday and wednesday.  The second thing is -- my new ranchu's scales are always just barely raised... why hasn't this improved?  He/She is still in epsom water, swimming and eating just fine.  Is it possible that some fish just naturally don't have their scales lying perfectly flat?

 

In case anyone is interested, below is the female ryukin with her spot behind her scales.  It's not easy to see, it's in front of her black spot right in the middle of her:

IMG_7635.jpg

 

IMG_7633.jpg

 

 

And below is the new ranchu.  I don't see any change in his scales:

IMG_7639.jpg

 

IMG_7640.jpg

 

IMG_7642.jpg

 

IMG_7644.jpg

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Regarding rolling, I have seen one instance where someone had a goldfish who was doing this while swimming. It was suggested that they fast the fish because maybe constipation was causing a problem. I can't remember if it was suggested they also use epsom salt. In any case, the rolling stopped. It appears that constipation was causing the whirling while swimming issue.

 

On the ranchu with raised scales: how long now on epsom? Any other symptoms with this fish that are presenting? I don't see ich on this fish.

 

On your other questions, others will need to contribute.

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One of my ranch's scales always look prickly like that ... It freaked me out at first but he's been with me for a couple years without issue.

Ich often gets worse before it gets better. It may take a while before you see any improvement.

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Regarding rolling, I have seen one instance where someone had a goldfish who was doing this while swimming. It was suggested that they fast the fish because maybe constipation was causing a problem. I can't remember if it was suggested they also use epsom salt. In any case, the rolling stopped. It appears that constipation was causing the whirling while swimming issue.

 

On the ranchu with raised scales: how long now on epsom? Any other symptoms with this fish that are presenting? I don't see ich on this fish.

 

On your other questions, others will need to contribute.

 

Hey Lisa, It could have been constipation.  This fish has never had constipation issues before, but who knows.  Since she already had ich, and raised scales, I attributed the rolling to some illness.. but I'm just glad it's gone!!!

 

And the ranchu with raised scaled -- this is a new ranchu, and this one hasn't had ich.  He's been in epsom for about a week.  I plan on giving it a few more days in epsom, then removing the epsom and seeing what happens.

 

Thanks!!!

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One of my ranch's scales always look prickly like that ... It freaked me out at first but he's been with me for a couple years without issue.

Ich often gets worse before it gets better. It may take a while before you see any improvement.

 

Hey Lisa, I'm wondering if this chu will be like that too.  When he arrived with raised scales, and they remained slightly raised for the first several days, I called the seller to ask if this fish always looked like that.  But the seller has so many fish, they couldn't say bc they don't look at the individual fish that closely.  The seller just said he'd had the fish for 4 months and it was always healthy when he had it.  This chu eventually pineconed out terribly.  Every scale was sticking out -- looked as bad as the worst pictures of dropsey on google -- wish I'd taken a pic of him when he looked like that.  But, like I said, the epsom cleared it mostly up in a few days.  We'll just see what he does when I remove the epsom.

 

Yeah, I haven't had to deal with ich before, but I thought they improved around day 3.  I'll just continue to be patient.  I'm just used to a once a week water change... and doing daily water changes on 5 tanks is getting old  :thumbdown   BUT, I'm counting my blessings.  I honestly thought I was going to lose at least 2.  I can't believe they're all still here with me!!  :D

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Keep on with treatment and update us when you can :)

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Thanks guys! I wasn't sure if my constant updates were overkill :)

 

Yesterday, everything was still the same with everyone, and my ryukin girl improved a little.

 

Today -- everyone's ich is suddenly very much improved in the main tank!  The 2 ranchus, the pearlscale, and the veiltail (in a separate tank) look completely ich free!  The 2 ryukin's look like they'll be ich free in 1-2 days.  The female ryukin still has the same amount of ich, but remember I halted her ich treatment for a day to treat her raised scales with epsom (which thankfully you guys told me to put her back in aquarium salt).  So, I'm sure she'll show improvement in a day or two.

 

The new ranchu with the barely raised scales is the same.  Tonight I'm going to remove the epsom from his water and monitor him for a few days to see what happens.

 

Thanks for checking, and for caring about my babies! :)  You guys are the best!

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Good news!!  Remember you need to keep salt at 0.3% for about 7-10 days after you see the last spot of ich.  :D

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Yep, what fantailfan said :). That's fabulous news about the ich!

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Haha, you guys read my mind!  I was going to ask how long to keep the salt in there.  I'm glad you mentioned it bc I was thinking it was 3 days.  I'll be sure to wait 7-10 days before removing it.

 

Everyone looks 100% clear today except my female ryukin.  I couldn't be happier :)

 

I took the epsom out of the water for the chu yesterday evening... let's see what happens :)

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Yay! :nana so glad to hear things are on the mend :)

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Things are still going well!  My last ryukin girl with ich looks like it should be cleared up by tomorrow.  Then I'll wait 7-10  days to bring the temp slowly back down and start removing the salt (or rather, add less and less back after water changes :) )

 

I removed the Epsom from the chu's tank on Monday, and his scales still look the same, barely raised.  I'm thinking/hoping he just always looks like that and it's normal for him, like fantailfan1's fish.  I'm going to reunite him with his friend tomorrow. I know scales provide protection in multiple ways, one being that it protects the fish from infection.  If his scales are always natrually slightly raised... I'll have to monitor his tank closely his whole life.  I would imagine it'd be easier for anything to make him sick.

 

I'll post a picture of everyone once they're all ich free :)

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