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Kayla102968

Another floating pond baby...what causes this?

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That's weird. But it could be a touch of pop eye, or if she has an infection localized in her snout like I suspect she might, it could be affecting the nerves in the area, hence the barely moving mouth and such.

This is all speculation without a microscope and physical examination, but hopefully the treatment will hit the symptoms we want and cause no side effects we don't :)

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If I do a daily water change before re-adding the metro, do I replace the kanaplex taken out? If kanaplex lasts for 2 days and I add an amount taken out after one day, is she going to be getting too high of a concentration of Kanaplex? Should I just use prime if needed and not do a water change for 2 days? Thanks.

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So today the fish still has a long length of hair thin poop that is twice as long as it's body.  It has been 2 days and it is still hanging there.  Could this mean she is constipated?  Or is it because she just isn't eating that it won't fall off it's body.  I give her tiny amounts of mushed food and she chews for a while half heartedly and then spits it out.  She is still just floating on her side on top of the tank.  I don't think it looks good for her.  One thing I am concerned about is that the other baby that has a very twisted body got sick and her body got more twisted even though she is well now.  This one looks like her tail end of her body is twisting more too.  I really hope it isn't fish tuberculosis.  

Can I try epsom with the 2 drugs I have in the tank?  The prazi has still been in there for 2 days as well.

Thanks,

Kayla

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I just feel for you and your fish right now. 
I want you to know that I am sending out a blessing from my heart.

 

I'm imagining healing for your tiny fin baby. It is my way of a prayer.

Just thinking about it well and asking the help of Divine Creator to make it so. 

Edited by mysterygirl

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If I do a daily water change before re-adding the metro, do I replace the kanaplex taken out? If kanaplex lasts for 2 days and I add an amount taken out after one day, is she going to be getting too high of a concentration of Kanaplex? Should I just use prime if needed and not do a water change for 2 days? Thanks.

The Kanaplex needs to be kept at w steady concentration in the water. So if you're doing daily 100% water changes, just redoes the full amount of Kanaplex to get the solution back up to full strength, along with the metro. And yes, you can also use prime if need be.

You can use Epsom salt with the antibiotics in there, but you wouldn't want to use it unless you're noting clear signs of dropsy. Remember every medication we use adds stress, and it makes it harder to track what is and isn't working. But if you're seeing fluid rings around the eye or pineconing then please dose at 1 tsp per ten gallons with the Epsom salt, and be sure to do full 100% water changes before redosing it so you don't up the concentration accidentally.

The twisting is tough, most fish assume that shape when they're dying, but occasionally things like lesions or inflammation could indeed impact the development of a juvenile fish. As long as they can swim and eat it's no big deal - short of a vet examination or necropsy it would be impossible to diagnose fish TB, and without contact with an infected source I'd assume more commonl pedestrian illnesses first :)

If you want to take more pictures or video of both twisted fish we may be able to give more insight. Unfortunately I'm posting this at 1:21 am and am not going to be back online in any substantive way until Saturday, so I cannot check in on you before then.

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I just feel for you and your fish right now. 

I want you to know that I am sending out a blessing from my heart.

 

I'm imagining healing for your tiny fin baby. It is my way of a prayer.

Just thinking about it well and asking the help of Divine Creator to make it so. 

Awww, thank you so much for your kindness :)

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If I do a daily water change before re-adding the metro, do I replace the kanaplex taken out? If kanaplex lasts for 2 days and I add an amount taken out after one day, is she going to be getting too high of a concentration of Kanaplex? Should I just use prime if needed and not do a water change for 2 days? Thanks.

The Kanaplex needs to be kept at w steady concentration in the water. So if you're doing daily 100% water changes, just redoes the full amount of Kanaplex to get the solution back up to full strength, along with the metro. And yes, you can also use prime if need be.

You can use Epsom salt with the antibiotics in there, but you wouldn't want to use it unless you're noting clear signs of dropsy. Remember every medication we use adds stress, and it makes it harder to track what is and isn't working. But if you're seeing fluid rings around the eye or pineconing then please dose at 1 tsp per ten gallons with the Epsom salt, and be sure to do full 100% water changes before redosing it so you don't up the concentration accidentally.

The twisting is tough, most fish assume that shape when they're dying, but occasionally things like lesions or inflammation could indeed impact the development of a juvenile fish. As long as they can swim and eat it's no big deal - short of a vet examination or necropsy it would be impossible to diagnose fish TB, and without contact with an infected source I'd assume more commonl pedestrian illnesses first :)

If you want to take more pictures or video of both twisted fish we may be able to give more insight. Unfortunately I'm posting this at 1:21 am and am not going to be back online in any substantive way until Saturday, so I cannot check in on you before then.

 

Thank you for taking the time to give me this information...I appreciate it :).

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Something is definitely very different about her eyes.  I would have seen this when she was in the fry pond.  It was very clear and when I see her from the top now it looks like one eye is looking up and one eye is moved downwards.  Her face looks misshapen.  I don't see a ring of fluid but could there be fluid causing the eyes to rotate...it is so weird.  It is like the left eye is pushed in at the bottom and bulging out at the top and her right eye is being pushed at the top and bulging out at the bottom.    She keeps following me with her eyes and moving them to look at me...it is hard...I hope she isn't in pain :(.

Here is a photo of today:  http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_5057_zpslzsizraw.jpg

 

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Here is an older video of her in the fry pond...you can't see a strange look to her head or eyes:

Here is a picture of her 3 or 4 days before I found her floating on the top...again if you zoom into her....you see no problem with her eyes.  She's at the very top middle of the photo:

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/20150930_130944_zps4kputj00.jpg

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Since yesterday I've noticed she has a red mark (sore) on her side that is sticking out of the water a bit.  She has been in Kanaplex and Metro for 4 days now.  I will give her a dose of Kanaplex tonight.  This will be her third dose and the package says I can do 3 doses.  My husband doesn't like to euthanize fish and neither do I.  I have never done it before and really don't want to do it if I don't have to :(

Edited by Kayla102968

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She seems a little stronger today...she swam around for probably about 7 seconds under the water but really worked hard to prevent from floating to top (and was barrel rolling).  Other than that she has been floating.  She has a reddish area today where her skin is out of the water, is there anything I can do about this?  She does move her body under plants but the plants aren't heavy enough to hold her whole body below the water.  What do you think I should do?

Here is the photo of her red spot:

I've circled the area in black:

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/0e7b8488-6040-4738-a5d0-4ff7233ede70_zpsjhbyaisw.jpg

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Since yesterday I've noticed she has a red mark (sore) on her side that is sticking out of the water a bit.  She has been in Kanaplex and Metro for 4 days now.  I will give her a dose of Kanaplex tonight.  This will be her third dose and the package says I can do 3 doses.  My husband doesn't like to euthanize fish and neither do I.  I have never done it before and really don't want to do it if I don't have to :(

 

Not an expert, but depending on what the mods/helpers say here, I personally have extended Kanaplex and Metro treatments for longer than Seachem's bottle listing. I believe that they also endorse this in their Q&A section depending on the situation. But of course, the mods know much better! 

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Thank you for the information Chelsea and QandD :).

The red spot on her looks much worse today.  It's sad because you think if she would just eat and swim proper she would be fine.  I still don't know what causes them to just start floating and not eating.  She honestly showed no signs of infection (red areas) until recently when her skin was exposed to the air so long.

Can someone remind me how to euthanize with ice water.  I can't remember the exact steps, but I don't think this little one is going to make it and I don't want her to be in pain with that sore on her side.  I will find some Vaseline, but I think it is really infected...it is very red :(.

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It could likely be dry, and not so much infected. But if you want to euthanize, could I suggest clove oil instead of ice water? You can find the pure stuff at most area drugstores in the bath section as aromatherapy. I've found ice water to be really really ineffective at euthanizing in comparison after having done it before several times when I was younger. 

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It could likely be dry, and not so much infected. But if you want to euthanize, could I suggest clove oil instead of ice water? You can find the pure stuff at most area drugstores in the bath section as aromatherapy. I've found ice water to be really really ineffective at euthanizing in comparison after having done it before several times when I was younger. 

Hi Chelsea.  Would it be really red even if it was just dry?  I can also see a lot of white which I suppose is slime coat in the area...you think that would keep it from getting dry.  I tried numerous ways and techniques to get the Vaseline on but it really is impossible.  It refuses to stick to the fish.  If I just drop a blob on, it immediately comes off and floats away since the cold water hardens it and won't let it stick.  She looked like she was trying to eat some of the mushed food I had on the tip of my finger.  She swam around under the water twice but is very erratic and really has no idea which way to swim...bumping into the tank walls etc.  Maybe this is because she has to swim quickly (darts) to stay under the water. 

 

The antibiotics don't seem to be helping...I would expect to see some improvement by now.  Maybe the swim bladder issue is permanent :(.

 

I thought I had heard somewhere on this board that ice water was the best way...maybe that was for fry?  I've never done this before for fry or adults so I really have no idea.  Thanks for your input.  Is there a link somewhere on this forum for how to use clove oil?  I'll print it out and give it to my husband if we decide to.  As I've said before, I really don't want to euthanize but I also don't want her to be in pain if this is unfixable.

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The Vaseline needs to be applied to the area after it has been wiped clean of water. Redness can be simply a sign of dryness, since it is irritated it turns red. However it could also be infection. I would think it isn't given that you have antibiotics in the water but I could be wrong.

Clove oil is best for euthanasia for all ages of fish, even fry. It's the anesthetic overdose method.

Either if you keep trying or decide to end the suffering, we are here for you. :hug

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It could just be dry, I agree Vaseline might help.

Please don't euth with ice water, it's hard to do correctly. Clove oil is easy and an analgesic so she won't feel anything. I got mine from the hippy section of Fred Meyer.

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Thanks for that link Una.

 

The Vaseline needs to be applied to the area after it has been wiped clean of water. Redness can be simply a sign of dryness, since it is irritated it turns red. However it could also be infection. I would think it isn't given that you have antibiotics in the water but I could be wrong.

Clove oil is best for euthanasia for all ages of fish, even fry. It's the anesthetic overdose method.

Either if you keep trying or decide to end the suffering, we are here for you. :hug

 

 

It could just be dry, I agree Vaseline might help.

Please don't euth with ice water, it's hard to do correctly. Clove oil is easy and an analgesic so she won't feel anything. I got mine from the hippy section of Fred Meyer.

 

Drying off the fish does not help with the vaseline.  A fish has slimecoat that it keeps producing and also even when you do get it on the scales, as soon as the fish enters the water the vaseline is removed from the fish.  This is my experience...I have tried numerous ways and it is not possible at least for me and my fish.  I watched a video of someone else doing it and I don't believe she got any vaseline on the fish either.

I'm pretty sure the redness is an infection.  I can't imagine redness growing where skin is exposed to air just because of dryness.  White coloration due to slimecoat makes sense to me if dryness was the only issue.  The fish is in antibiotics but since the skin is not in the water it is not getting any of the antibiotic.

Here is the picture from today...you can see how the redness has gotten worse.  What would you do now?  Should I try epsom as a last ditch effort just in case she is constipated?  Thanks again for any suggestions.  It is frustrating, and I appreciate any and all help :).

 

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_5148_zpsqj1rsp7c.jpg

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It looks like irritation to me. Similar to when you get chapped lips. Because the slime coat also dries out, it's the same concept as trying to lick your chapped lips and them coming out worse off. The slime coat does not help the fish when it's exposed to air for a long period. It's irritating and like any irritated skin, turns red.

The skin itself isn't necessarily not getting the antibiotics. They are likely in your fish's system by now, which means that the skin is getting it from the inside.

You could try Epsom if you want, but I am not really confident it is constipation. Worth a shot, though, since nothing is certain as to what is going on.

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It could still just be irritated, but if it is an infection a localized baytril injection from the vet would be the next step. If you want try shelled, chopped up peas and 1 teaspoon Epsom per ten gallons. If she is constipated that should help.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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It looks like irritation to me. Similar to when you get chapped lips. Because the slime coat also dries out, it's the same concept as trying to lick your chapped lips and them coming out worse off. The slime coat does not help the fish when it's exposed to air for a long period. It's irritating and like any irritated skin, turns red.

The skin itself isn't necessarily not getting the antibiotics. They are likely in your fish's system by now, which means that the skin is getting it from the inside.

You could try Epsom if you want, but I am not really confident it is constipation. Worth a shot, though, since nothing is certain as to what is going on.

I think I'll give a try with the Epsom...thanks :)

 

It could still just be irritated, but if it is an infection localized baytril injection from the vet would be the next step. If you want to try shelled, chopped up peas and 1 teaspoon Epsom per ten gallons. If she is constipated that should help.

I think I'll try the Epsom.  She is not eating and I believe the tiny bit of mushed pellets she's getting she's spitting out, so peas will be a no-go.  Thanks Taryl for the information.

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One thing that worries me is if I don't know what happened to her...what about my other 30 fish...are they going to be okay?  I noticed today that the hose clamps on my pumps are metal and they have a lot of rust on them.  Could that have caused a problem?  Do they make plastic hose clamps?  I'm not sure that 2 rusted hose clamps in a 700 gallon pond would cause a problem...but it doesn't hurt to replace them with plastic if they make them.

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No, rust wouldn't do this. More likely it is an anaerobic infection like aeromonas or pseudomonas, and treatment doesn't always work in time if the fish is weakened.

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