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zosmaa

Stuck At The Top

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 30 ppm (this was before my water change I did tonight... so this is after 5 days)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 5.0 ppm
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.2
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.2
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API freshwater master test kit
      • * Water temperature? I don’t use a heater. Not sure exact room temp probably around 72 degrees.
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 40 gallons running since 2013
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Fluval 206 and Aquaclear 50
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? weekly about 90%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? I did one today about 90% again. Before that it was on Sunday Sept 6th.
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 Orandas, body is maybe 3-4 inches or so long
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? just Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? I give them Hikari lion head and the occasional bean or pea (this is probably part of the problem. Explained below). I feed them about 3 times a day just small meals.
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? no
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. I salt and use Prazi on the tank every 6 or so months. I last added salt to the tank maybe 3 weeks ago for about a week. My other fish was having redness on his face that comes and goes.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
 Yes - explanation below
 
I have 2 fish. Max and Asher. I have have come to this forum in the past with many issues involving Asher. He is a piggy and gulps up all the food in the tank before my slower fish Max can get anything to eat. I have always gotten lots of great help and my fish have always done really well with the treatment I’ve been offered.
 
This is about Max though and this is the first time Max has ever had any problems. While cleaning out my tank about a week or so ago, I came across a jar of New Life Spectrum Thera+A that I had forgotten about in my tank stand storage area. I have always pretty much fed them the Hikari lion head on a daily basis and they have always done just fine. Max is slow to find food and I feel bad since I don’t feed much in general usually and he is left with nothing sometimes with my other fish Asher hogging it all.

 

So I decided to try the NLS and add a bit more to the tank so Max could get his share. I did this for about a week or so and on Sept 9th I stopped as I noticed Max would float up to the surface laying on his side. I figured he was constipated and regretted adding too much food the past week. I am ashamed to admit that I’m not the best at adding greens to the tank. Daily life gets the best of me and it’s low on the priority list.  :( What made it worse is that I discovered that the jar had expired in July. Ugh!

 

Yesterday I did not feed them as he is still sitting at the top sideways. Today has been the same. He is still alive, doing ok. But he will try to swim around occasionally and just floats back up to the top and stops trying. I’m beginning to worry as he looks to be bent in an odd way. I tried feeding just 1 pea to him today to see if that would help but nothing has happened so far. He is still stuck.

 

I did one large water change this evening and was going to do another tomorrow but my pond pump that helps me do water changes died on me and so I need to hunt down another pump before doing another big water change. 

 

If anyone can offer any suggestions on what I should do at this point I would really appreciate it. Max looks completely normal other than maybe a little bit of raised scales, but it’s hard to tell if it’s just because he’s bent or not. He is starting to get a tiny red mark on him where he has been out of the water but he moves from time to time so it hasn’t gotten bad yet. Other than that he has no other visual redness or anything abnormal.

 

IMG_9133_zpspbpxo46q.jpg

 

Here is a picture of Max back in July for comparison. He was all white but after feeding him the NLS he actually got some of yellow back in his wen. I apologize for the large pictures. 

 

thumb_IMG_8675_1024_zpsek9efxku.jpg

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Thank you for such detailed information, it really helps us very much :)

The bend isn't a great sign, I'm afraid. I see the raised scales and don't honestly think the expired food was the issue, though it could have exacerbated it.

Can you please tell me what medications you have access to? I'd like to treat him with metronidazole if you can acquire it.

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Thank you for such detailed information, it really helps us very much :)

The bend isn't a great sign, I'm afraid. I see the raised scales and don't honestly think the expired food was the issue, though it could have exacerbated it.

Can you please tell me what medications you have access to? I'd like to treat him with metronidazole if you can acquire it.

 

I don't have any medications at this time. I only have canning salt and epsom. Back in April I moved to a pretty rural area so the closest fish shop might be 30-40 mins away. I can look online to see what might be near where I live. Is that the only med I would need?

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Oh I guess I should ask... is this a SeaChem product? I'm googling it and it's pulling up a lot of "General Cure" from API. I could probably get that at a Petsmart that is fairly close to me. Is that what I'm looking for? Could you provide a link? Also is there anything else I could do in the meantime?

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Yes, the Seachem Metronidazole is what you want. That, the Epsom, and maybe Seachem Kanaplex are what I'd recommend. But the Kanaplex isn't crucial, it would just be what I'd suggest having on hand if you need it to combine with the Metro should it not be licked on its own.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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I've never had luck getting a fish to recover once it's bent into that C shape. :( I'm not trying to take away hope, but it's probably wise to be prepared for the worst, unfortunately.

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Get the General Cure and treat him with that.  You can and should order metro (if only for future infections), but if this fish has any chance (and I tend to doubt it) you need immediate antibiotic treatment.  

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Get the General Cure and treat him with that.  You can and should order metro (if only for future infections), but if this fish has any chance (and I tend to doubt it) you need immediate antibiotic treatment.  

 

Ok. I can try and get all of them today hopefully. My husband is traveling a little more north where there are lots more fish stores and I know of one that I think carries SeaChem supplies but I will have to call them when they open to see if they have any of the kanaplex or metro in stock.

 

I do have epsom salt. Is there anything I can do right now while I see if I can get meds that I need?

 

This morning Max seems about the same hasn't gotten any worse visually.

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You can add 1 tsp of epsom per 10 gallons.

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I am still calling around looking for the meds. Most stores don't seem to have them. I even went to Petsmart in my area and they didn't have any general cure in stock. :(

 

I did find one store that had Metroplex. I know that's not exactly what I need but that would that work?

Edited by zosmaa

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Metroplex is the right one. :). See if they have Kanaplex and either furan or bi furan.

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Metroplex is the right one. :). See if they have Kanaplex and either furan or bi furan.

 

 

They did have both Metroplex and Kanaplex (at least so says my husband over the phone). They did not have the others. He won't be home with the medicine for quite some time. Once he gets here, what should I do med wise? I am hesitant to use anything that will seriously hurt my fish more. Not that I'm questioning the advice, but I worry about over medicating. 

 

Do I just follow the procedures on the bottle or is there another method I should use? How much to dose/how long? I have a 10 gallon tank that I am going to get set up. Does my fish have a bacterial infection? What do you think might have happened?

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I have my hospital tank set up now. It's a 10 gallon and I did add in the 1 tsp of epsom salt. Max has been moved over. The redness on his side that is exposed to air is getting a little more pink. Is there anything I can do for that?

 

Also I have NOT added in the meds yet as I was just waiting to hear back from someone on what to do. :)

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:hi  

 

Sorry.   2 soccer games to attend and a football game to catch up on.  :peeka

 

 

 

Go ahead and dose the meds according to the package instructions.  If the Metroplex says 1 or 2 measures, do 2 please.  You can try and get a thin layer of Vaseline to stick to the red area on the side but that can be tricky . . . 

 

In 24 hours, test the QT for ammonia and post the results here.  We will instruct what to do from there.   

 

Good luck.  :hug

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I took some of my media from my 40 gallon tank and am using an Aquaclear 20 so it should be cycled. I don't know if that does any good as maybe I just brought a bunch of bacteria with Max to the 10 gallon. Or maybe it kills the beneficial bacteria?

 

I will go ahead and dose the tank. So use BOTH the Metro and Kanaplex?

 

I can understand being busy. This was the first chance I got to getting around to setting up the 10 gallon. :)

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The canister it comes it says just to do 1 dose but on the box it came in it says 1-2... so I did add two scoops of the Metroplex.

 

And just 1 of the Kanaplex. 

 

Just wanted to add that so everyone was clear on what I added. I guess I'll keep the boxes since they say something different than the actual bottle. :)

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Yep use both.

 

The metro and kana may kill your BB.  Make sure to check your ammonia and nitrite daily.

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I know this may sound silly, but my initial impression when Max started floating was that he was constipated. Is the 1 tsp of epsom currently in my holding tank enough to help with constipation? I only ask as I haven't seen him poop in awhile but again I haven't fed him in several days.

 

And since I haven't been feeding him, when do I need to worry about feeding him again? 

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They can go a week or a bit more without eating.  

 

Yes, the epsom would help with constipation.  :D

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I'm so glad you were able to find things locally so you can try and treat quickly. Keep us updated as to how things are going :)

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Ok so I tested my water about 20 mins ago. The nitrites are at 0 still. The ammonia is very hard to tell. It doesn't look bright yellow like the card at 0 so it could possibly be 0.25 because it looks slightly green depending on the light but it's not anymore than that if the ammonia is present.

 

Here is a video I took today of Max. The pink on his side is just the exposed scales to the air when he's floating. I am going to try later today to try and put a little vaseline on it as suggested earlier by fantailfan1.

 

http://vid1157.photobucket.com/albums/p592/zosmaa/IMG_9144_zpsu2ag0fck.mp4

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I do see some prickly scales . . .   I think this course of treatment is the right way to go.

 

For today since ammonia is only at 0.25, I'd like you to dose Prime and don't make any changes as far as meds are concerned.  Tomorrow we will have you do as close to 100% WC as you can, redose meds (both kana and metro) and epsom.  :D

 

Hang in there.  It will be at least a few days before we start to see any improvement.

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I do see some prickly scales . . .   I think this course of treatment is the right way to go.

 

For today since ammonia is only at 0.25, I'd like you to dose Prime and don't make any changes as far as meds are concerned.  Tomorrow we will have you do as close to 100% WC as you can, redose meds (both kana and metro) and epsom.   :D

 

Hang in there.  It will be at least a few days before we start to see any improvement.

 

Alrighty! I got everything changed over tonight just as you said. Max is still looking the same but doesn't seem to be getting any worse. We will keep our hopes up.  :thumbup2: 

Thanks everyone for the help and the kind words. It's very much appreciated. :)

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