Jump to content

Why is there no general agreement on tank size for single tailed goldfish it seems?


yogosans14

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

I have noticed there is a good set in stone rule for majoirty of GF keepers when it comes to Fancy goldfish. Usually 20 gallons per fish or 30 gallons for the first and 10 for each additional.

But with single tailed GF like Comets, Commons, Shubnkins nobody has a general rule. Some say 20 gallons per fish just like the fancies, others say 40 gallons per fish, some say 75 gallons for the first and 20 gallons for each additional and some say they need 100 gallons per fish or a large pond.

Why is this?I find it sad because I think the Single Tailed varities are beautfiul but so under rated due to this confusion.

Edited by yogosans14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Supporter

General agreement on here is that single tales are treated the same as fancies when it comes to gallons per fish.

There are exceptions like the black comet (I have two) that are koi/goldfish hybrids and get larger (around 24") that will require more space.

Again that's a general agreement and some people's opinions differ. Same for fancies too. Some people will stress 20gal per fish some will say 10 is acceptable. Some people done like anything less than a 40gall for two fish some people are ok with a 29.

Fish keeping is a changing evolving hobby and standards change over time. Its good to remember that and in the end its upto the individual what they do.

Edited by Daniel E.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I do not know the origin of the silly idea that the much tougher long-bodied goldfish need more water than fancies.  I know how it spread.  People read something and pass it on as fact, and the internet makes this so much easier.  We do know some facts.  Common goldfish have lived years and even decades in two gallon bowls, often two fish to a bowl.  Not so much true of  fancies.  

 

The justification given for commons needing more space usually say they get much bigger than fancy goldfish.  This may be true if you think a guy who is 6'4" and 170 pounds is bigger than one who is 5'10" and 340 pounds.  Long-bodied goldfish are longer than the short-bodied fancies.  Fancies are taller and wider.  Fish are three dimensional.  Size is volume/mass, not length.  In some East Asian goldfish shows they give prizes for the largest goldfish.  These are typically won by orandas or ryukins.

 

The other reason they give is that common goldfish swim faster and therefore need more room.  Look again at humans.  Does a sprinter need a bigger house than a weightlifter?  Juvenile goldfish tend to dash around (like human children).  Fish biologists classify goldfish as sedentary fish, and mature goldfish move fast when frightened, coming for food, or when spawning.   The rest of the time they just "stroll" along, foraging for food as they go.  A big difference between long-bodied and fancy goldfish that does affect swimming room is flexibility.  A long-bodied goldfish remains flexible as an adult, and can fold itself into a U-shape when turning.  I use a little "critter carrier" for examining and photographing fish, and I can assure you that a 12" common goldfish can easily turn around in a container that is less than 6" wide.  The shorter the body the stiffer it is, so fancies need more space to turn around.

 

Another reason people think common goldfish need a pond is that the long-bodied fish are called "pond goldfish."  That doesn't mean they need a pond, it just means they can live in a pond with  little care year around.  You don't need to bring them in for the winter.  Actually, many people successfully keep fancies in a pond year around, but they are somewhat more sensitive to temperature extremes.

 

If you ever find someone who claims to maintain a goldfish pond with 100 gallons per fish, either:  the pond contains all male or all female goldfish: the pond contains predator fish that will eat all the juvenile goldfish, or he seines out all of the fish twice a year and disposes of most of them to keep the population down.  Goldfish spawn a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I do not know the origin of the silly idea that the much tougher long-bodied goldfish need more water than fancies.  I know how it spread.  People read something and pass it on as fact, and the internet makes this so much easier.  We do know some facts.  Common goldfish have lived years and even decades in two gallon bowls, often two fish to a bowl.  Not so much true of  fancies.  

 

The justification given for commons needing more space usually say they get much bigger than fancy goldfish.  This may be true if you think a guy who is 6'4" and 170 pounds is bigger than one who is 5'10" and 340 pounds.  Long-bodied goldfish are longer than the short-bodied fancies.  Fancies are taller and wider.  Fish are three dimensional.  Size is volume/mass, not length.  In some East Asian goldfish shows they give prizes for the largest goldfish.  These are typically won by orandas or ryukins.

 

The other reason they give is that common goldfish swim faster and therefore need more room.  Look again at humans.  Does a sprinter need a bigger house than a weightlifter?  Juvenile goldfish tend to dash around (like human children).  Fish biologists classify goldfish as sedentary fish, and mature goldfish move fast when frightened, coming for food, or when spawning.   The rest of the time they just "stroll" along, foraging for food as they go.  A big difference between long-bodied and fancy goldfish that does affect swimming room is flexibility.  A long-bodied goldfish remains flexible as an adult, and can fold itself into a U-shape when turning.  I use a little "critter carrier" for examining and photographing fish, and I can assure you that a 12" common goldfish can easily turn around in a container that is less than 6" wide.  The shorter the body the stiffer it is, so fancies need more space to turn around.

 

Another reason people think common goldfish need a pond is that the long-bodied fish are called "pond goldfish."  That doesn't mean they need a pond, it just means they can live in a pond with  little care year around.  You don't need to bring them in for the winter.  Actually, many people successfully keep fancies in a pond year around, but they are somewhat more sensitive to temperature extremes.

 

If you ever find someone who claims to maintain a goldfish pond with 100 gallons per fish, either:  the pond contains all male or all female goldfish: the pond contains predator fish that will eat all the juvenile goldfish, or he seines out all of the fish twice a year and disposes of most of them to keep the population down.  Goldfish spawn a lot.

 

I do not know the origin of the silly idea that the much tougher long-bodied goldfish need more water than fancies.  I know how it spread.  People read something and pass it on as fact, and the internet makes this so much easier.  We do know some facts.  Common goldfish have lived years and even decades in two gallon bowls, often two fish to a bowl.  Not so much true of  fancies.  

 

The justification given for commons needing more space usually say they get much bigger than fancy goldfish.  This may be true if you think a guy who is 6'4" and 170 pounds is bigger than one who is 5'10" and 340 pounds.  Long-bodied goldfish are longer than the short-bodied fancies.  Fancies are taller and wider.  Fish are three dimensional.  Size is volume/mass, not length.  In some East Asian goldfish shows they give prizes for the largest goldfish.  These are typically won by orandas or ryukins.

 

The other reason they give is that common goldfish swim faster and therefore need more room.  Look again at humans.  Does a sprinter need a bigger house than a weightlifter?  Juvenile goldfish tend to dash around (like human children).  Fish biologists classify goldfish as sedentary fish, and mature goldfish move fast when frightened, coming for food, or when spawning.   The rest of the time they just "stroll" along, foraging for food as they go.  A big difference between long-bodied and fancy goldfish that does affect swimming room is flexibility.  A long-bodied goldfish remains flexible as an adult, and can fold itself into a U-shape when turning.  I use a little "critter carrier" for examining and photographing fish, and I can assure you that a 12" common goldfish can easily turn around in a container that is less than 6" wide.  The shorter the body the stiffer it is, so fancies need more space to turn around.

 

Another reason people think common goldfish need a pond is that the long-bodied fish are called "pond goldfish."  That doesn't mean they need a pond, it just means they can live in a pond with  little care year around.  You don't need to bring them in for the winter.  Actually, many people successfully keep fancies in a pond year around, but they are somewhat more sensitive to temperature extremes.

 

If you ever find someone who claims to maintain a goldfish pond with 100 gallons per fish, either:  the pond contains all male or all female goldfish: the pond contains predator fish that will eat all the juvenile goldfish, or he seines out all of the fish twice a year and disposes of most of them to keep the population down.  Goldfish spawn a lot.

Just saying my pond I use 100 gallons for each goldfish but some fry do make it but it would take a lot to make my pond overstocked or give the goldfish less than a 100 gallons each 

Edited by goldfishfanforever
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

If your measurements (12' diameter, maximum depth 2.5 feet) and my calculations (I used 2ft average depth,  probably an overestimate with those shelves.) are correct, your pond contains ~1700 gallons.  At 100 gallons per goldfish, (not counting the sturgeon) that would be 17 goldfish.  I read that the smallest species of sturgeon need at least 1000 gallons and the others more than 2000 gallons, but I haven't been able to determine how much of that water they can share with other fish.  

 

Do you have other species of fish in the pond? 

 

Has your net kept the heron away?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I agree with basically everything said above. To throw in my two cents, I think goldfish are best kept in numbers of 2 or more and a 40 gallon tank is a good starting point for that.  Some people will say they can be kept in smaller tanks, and sure, they can. However, once you have seen a goldfish over a foot long, not including the tail, you will understand why it is not a good idea, and why the amount of water changes will be tremendous. As far as the original question... Why do people say so many different thing? Well, most people really have no clue what they are talking about. They just repeat what other people who know nothing have said. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Helper

There is also confusion over what can be maintained temporarily or for younger fish vs older or permanent conditions, let alone filtration. I have maintained seven goldfish in about 20 gallon for the last three months, with perfect water parameters and no illness, signs of stress, aggression, stunting, what have you. This isn't something I'd recommend for most other keepers, but experienced aquarists can balance filtration and water chemistry with higher stocking limits than someone who is just dipping in their toe. Beyond basic space requirements the limiting factor of goldfish is water quality above all else.

I'd argue fancies, being more genetically prone to issues, are the ones who need more care with conditions and water quality, not longer bodied commons. But the emphasis needs to be on filtration above space, at a certain point. However space allows much more margin of error in husbandry than a smaller body of water, so I believe that is where many of these recommendations came from.

There is also an element of bro science to the whole thing, because husbandry and breeding practices have been secretive and closely guarded for centuries, and much of the trade literature isn't available in English. Adopting part of a practice without adopting all of it, like feeding recs without complementary algae growth or water changes, has lead to further confusion. Viewing bowls, hand spawning, line breeding, conditioning diets, and other practices also represent this confusion, as these things haven't translated well to foreign fish keeping because of a lack of pairing with additional practices that made these things sustainable (multiple daily water changes and holding ponds, understanding signs of spawning readiness relating to weather and seasons, etc).

People have successfully kept goldfish in all sorts of conditions, and some things have just 'worked' without the mechanism behind them being clearly understood. The job of a hobbyist in educating on this subject is to try and give recommendations that have the most chance of success, and I do believe that is what this site aims for. Not because they're always accurate or proven, but because they lessen the difficulty and issues with goldfish fancy. I'd rather people parrot good or generous recommendations than poor ones, but of course everyone understanding the why behind the system would be best of all.

And on the super tiny tank note - my hubby is finishing the touches on the framing for my permanent tank. Finally. I will be so glad to get them in a properly sized swimming space!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...